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Waves and Enemy Spawns - Updated for Collectors


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#1
Cyonan

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People have been asking from time to time about wave spawns and exactly how they work, so I figured I would go and datamine all the data for it.

The way that the game decides what to spawn is that it assigns a specific budget to each wave, and a cost to each unit. They also assign certain values about how many of a specific unit can spawn at once, or how many can spawn during the entire wave. Once it runs out of budget, you win the wave.

All the information can be found here: 
https://docs.google....QlE&output=html 

A few notes about waves:

> Objective waves ignore their defined budget. Enemies spawn endlessly until the objective is completed, then no more enemies will spawn and you must finish what is left.

> Units with an unlimited amount of active units at one time have a lower priority to spawn than anything with a limit.

> A maximum of 8 enemies can be spawned at any given time. This does not include summons such as drones or swarmers.

> The game attempts to avoid spawning enemies directly in line of sight of a player, or right on top of them.

Something else I've noted in the past doing runs with Zhhk and crew. If you avoid killing the bigger units and focus on the smaller runs, you can force the wave to run out of its' budget before it can spawn any more of the big guys. Using this we would avoid Banshees and never have to kill more than 2 per wave during the more troublesome challenges.

Update: Added cost information for summons(Drones/Turrets/Swamers). They don't count towards the max 8 units, but spawning them does take away from the budget.

Update: Added Platinum spawns. Due to the nature of Platinum and how every faction spawns, each faction has their own separate spreadsheet.

All of the data in this sheet has been pulled from the Coalesced file or the Weekly Balance Changes thread. If you see something that doesn't match up, then let me know.

Edited by Cyonan, 27 October 2012 - 01:59 AM.

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#2
lpconfig

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Awesome post.

#3
Leisure Muffin

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nice

#4
Kataigida

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I think I finally see why we have such a phantom problem....

As soon as you hit wave 5+ on gold, they don't even have a limit O.e that's horrible.

By a max of 8 enemies spawned at any given time, do you mean a max of 8 of any one specific unit on the field at one time?

Edited by Kataigida, 29 June 2012 - 06:51 AM.


#5
Cyonan

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Kataigida wrote...

I think I finally see why we have such a phantom problem....

As soon as you hit wave 5+ on gold, they don't even have a limit O.e that's horrible.

By a max of 8 enemies spawned at any given time, do you mean a max of 8 of any one specific unit on the field at one time?


A max of 8 between all units, but it doesn't count things like turrets or drones as a unit. They're considered pets or summons.

and yeah, nothing on gold has a limited amount per wave =P

The Geth eventually just stop using Troopers as filler and start using Hunters around wave 5.

#6
Guest_Lathrim_*

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Bloody amazing, good work! :wizard:

#7
Moonphos87

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Kataigida wrote...

I think I finally see why we have such a phantom problem....

As soon as you hit wave 5+ on gold, they don't even have a limit O.e that's horrible.

By a max of 8 enemies spawned at any given time, do you mean a max of 8 of any one specific unit on the field at one time?


It means 8 enemies in total, in any kind of mix.

Can be like 2 Atlas, 2 Phantom, and a mix of Guardian/Engineer/Centurion/Trooper, making up to 8 in total.

Edit - @OP, great post, been wondering for a while.

Edited by Moonphos87, 29 June 2012 - 06:54 AM.


#8
chcknwng

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Noticed that part with Hunters as well. That is just crazy. I'll start killing pyros and running away fron hunters ASAP.

#9
Cyonan

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wngmv wrote...

Noticed that part with Hunters as well. That is just crazy. I'll start killing pyros and running away fron hunters ASAP.


That actually reminded me of something we used to do while doing challenges from that thread.

If you focus on the smaller units you can force the wave to run out of the budget. We could actually prevent all the waves(except objectives) on gold from going beyond 2 Banshees per wave by doing this. It requires a bit of kiting though.

#10
lpconfig

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I normally try to save the Banshees for last.

#11
Javo2357

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Wow awesome post, very useful spreadsheet!

#12
InterwebNinja

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This is great stuff, thanks.

Hunters only show up in objective rounds / extraction in silver? Interesting... had never noticed that before.

Edited by InterwebNinja, 29 June 2012 - 07:30 AM.


#13
Kalas Magnus

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Make this a sticky.

#14
mrwizeguy

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Cyonan wrote...

wngmv wrote...

Noticed that part with Hunters as well. That is just crazy. I'll start killing pyros and running away fron hunters ASAP.


That actually reminded me of something we used to do while doing challenges from that thread.

If you focus on the smaller units you can force the wave to run out of the budget. We could actually prevent all the waves(except objectives) on gold from going beyond 2 Banshees per wave by doing this. It requires a bit of kiting though.

Good work man Thanks, was looking forward to this for sometime.
what u say is possible . Also i had this happen to me once u might want to check it out. Reapers reactor ,  cant remember wave# , was last alive had a banshee screaming and about 10 mixed marauders brutes etc , i was running around killing all the small ones ignoring the banshee and once i killed a marauder she disappear !!! So , can it even remove enemies when the "possible"total wave cost has reached its max value?

#15
Achire

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Excellent work. Just one thing: the Geth Horde Data is not correct in coalesced.bin (and consequently in your spreadsheet). Wave 10 has 3 Primes, and Wave 11 for example has a single Geth Rocket Trooper that is not listed anywhere. So clearly somewhere along the line the coalesced.bin values are modified, but I don't know where.

Edit: My bad, was on the wrong page of the sheet. Wave 10 Primes are listed correctly.

Edited by Achire, 29 June 2012 - 11:04 AM.


#16
Cyonan

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Achire wrote...

Excellent work. Just one thing: the Geth Horde Data is not correct in coalesced.bin (and consequently in your spreadsheet). Wave 10 has 3 Primes, and Wave 11 for example has a single Geth Rocket Trooper that is not listed anywhere. So clearly somewhere along the line the coalesced.bin values are modified, but I don't know where.

Edit: My bad, was on the wrong page of the sheet. Wave 10 Primes are listed correctly.


Added the Rocket Trooper to wave 11.

It's possible the coalesced file was changed on the Mass Effect server, so I'll continue to update as we find any inconsistencies.

I have grabbed everything mentioned in the weekly balance changes.

Edited by Cyonan, 29 June 2012 - 04:00 PM.


#17
Mgamerz

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I didn't read your doc (since I know everything in it), but the minwave/maxwave will also ignore the enemy budgets and the maximum number of enemies on screen. You have a base unit, most times the basic foot trooper, that fills in the budget. Every other enemy always has 1 or 2 on the field, ALWAYS until the budget is completed (this ignores the first spawn).
So you can spawn like 50000 guys in the initial spawn.

Live updates seem to just override some of your own Coalesed settings. Anything you change can be overridden by some file that you download, I just don't know where that file goes.

Swarmers/Turrets and things enemies can spawn also subtract from the wave cost, about 2 points (a prime is 100 points). So if it spawns a kabillino swarmers, then it won't spawn anymore. It'd be pretty cool to spawn a wave of swarmers...

Edited by Mgamerz, 29 June 2012 - 05:49 PM.


#18
Cyonan

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Mgamerz wrote...

I didn't read your doc (since I know everything in it), but the minwave/maxwave will also ignore the enemy budgets and the maximum number of enemies on screen. You have a base unit, most times the basic foot trooper, that fills in the budget. Every other enemy always has 1 or 2 on the field, ALWAYS until the budget is completed (this ignores the first spawn).
So you can spawn like 50000 guys in the initial spawn.

Live updates seem to just override some of your own Coalesed settings. Anything you change can be overridden by some file that you download, I just don't know where that file goes.

Swarmers/Turrets and things enemies can spawn also subtract from the wave cost, about 2 points (a prime is 100 points). So if it spawns a kabillino swarmers, then it won't spawn anymore. It'd be pretty cool to spawn a wave of swarmers...


I've added in any of the live updates that they have documented in the weekly balance changes. I'm fairly certain file is stored on the Mass Effect 3 server so we wouldn't have access to it.

I also want to go through an add summons and their cost this weekend. I think I remember the Ravagar having a maximum number of swarmers.

#19
StarStruck010

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Thank you.
This information is awesome.

#20
Topographer

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Wow, phantom's are worth a lot compared to an Atlas. Also, for how easy it can be to kill guardians it looks like the team should focus on them when possible.

#21
Beerfish

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That is one of the single toughest things for me and other players to do as we try and advance onto tougher levels, ignoring the greatest danger. All instincts say go and kill the biggest threat.

#22
Mgamerz

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The summons costs of enemies never goes above 10. I think a swarmer is 2 and a turret is 5 (don't quote me on this). If you want any help putting together a chart just shoot me a message, I'd love to help put up a table.

Edited by Mgamerz, 29 June 2012 - 10:21 PM.


#23
Cyonan

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Updated to include the summoned units costs.

Cerberus Turret is 20
Geth Prime Drone is 5
Geth Prime Turret is 7
Swarmers are 2

#24
PaperAlien

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Is the 8 enemies thing 8 per spawn or 8 on the map at any time? Because the latter sounds pretty boring.
I would choose to deal with banshees first (if there's no ravagers around ofc), even if it meant having to kill more of them, because trying to kill trash mobs with a banshee constantly attempting to instakill you is rather annoying, I'd much rather kill the banshee first and take out the trash mobs while the next one spawns and travels to your position.

#25
Cyonan

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PaperAlien wrote...

Is the 8 enemies thing 8 per spawn or 8 on the map at any time? Because the latter sounds pretty boring.
I would choose to deal with banshees first (if there's no ravagers around ofc), even if it meant having to kill more of them, because trying to kill trash mobs with a banshee constantly attempting to instakill you is rather annoying, I'd much rather kill the banshee first and take out the trash mobs while the next one spawns and travels to your position.


It's 8 on the map at any time. It's probably mostly to keep resource usage down on the weaker computers and the consoles, since their hardware is pretty outdated these days(It's really past time Microsoft got a new Xbox out =P). It can also help reduce things being a massive cluster on the smaller maps like Glacier.

As was pointed out, the minimum active at one time(Which Is always equal to the max active at one time) is able to override that maximum and spawn more units.

I don't think there's any case where that actually happens though, unless you end up with a high number of the filler units somehow.

Personally, I try to take out Marauders first. Mostly because they're the most likely thing to kill me these days, unless I'm lagging and get hit by magnet hands, in which case half the time any surviving Marauders kill me and save me from the sync kill =P