65 replies to this topic

[Cyonan]

Yep. This is a thing now. I got a PM asking about how points are awarded so I played around with it a bit,

How it works

There are 3 pools worth of points you can get in a kill:

Damage Score: This makes up the bulk of the points, and is supposed to be proportional to the amount of damage you did to the target.

Kill Bonus: This is 10% of the Damage Score and is awarded to whoever gets the killing blow. A few summoned units do not have a Kill Bonus.

Power Assist Bonus: This is a bonus that players get for using a support power. Support powers count as anything that ragdolls the target or debuffs it. It works a bit strangely at times(Which I'll go through later in the post). Usually it is 25% of the Damage Score, but some units have slightly more, and a few summoned units have no Power Assist Bonus.

The Power Assist Pool

This will award a varying amount of points based on what you have used, and is really confusing at times on what exactly it's doing. What I've found so far:

> If your ability ragdolls the target without killing it, it is worth 100% of the pool.
> If your ability should have ragdolled it but didn't because of shields/barriers/armour, it gets 25% of the pool per cast.
> If your ability debuffs to do increased damage taken, you get a 25% of the pool.
> If your ability outright killed the target, you get 0% of the pool regardless of if it was supposed to ragdoll or debuff(note: If the ability doesn't kill them but the ragdoll causes them to take phsyics based damage which does kill them, you still get the full amount of bonus points).

Ammo powers also do not count towards the bonus pool, and neither do powers which do not ragdoll or debuff.

Warp appears to be an oddity, granting only 15% of the pool per cast.

In the case of ragdoll powers on protected targets and them granting you 25% of the pool per cast, using Cryo Blast on a shielded Centurion 2 times without freezing it yields 50% of the Power Assist Bonus. Using it 4 times will yield 100% of the Power Assist Bonus.

Combos

Combos count as an assist if they ragdoll the target, otherwise they count as normal damage. They are subject to the same rule that it doesn't count as a ragdoll if it outright kills the target.

If you detonate a combo with a ragdolling power which results in a kill, you still do not get the Power Assist Bonus(unless the primer ragdolled).

Sabotage

It's well known that Backfire doesn't give points. It will award its' share of the damage to whatever previously hit the target, regardless of if it was the caster of Sabotage or somebody else.  If it kills the target, you also see the previous source of damage get the kill credit.

The AI hacking half counts as a full ragdoll effect for the purposes of the Power Assist Bonus pool.

Multiple Players

This is yet another place where it gets weird.

In theory, the game is supposed to figure out what % of the damage or assisting you've done, then award points based on that. If you did 50% of the damage then you get 50% of the Damage Score. The Power Assist Bonus pool is supposed to work in the same way based on what % of the assist powers you applied, with ragdoll effects being weighted 4x as much as debuffs.

However, the game will sometimes award too much of the point pools to the person with the killing blow. It's not currently known what causes this, and it requires more testing.

Whoever gets the killing blow will still be awarded the full Kill Bonus.

Difficulty Scaling

Points will scale up with difficulty. The modifiers for each difficulty is:

Bronze: 1.0x
Silver: 1.2x
Gold: 1.6x
Platinum: 2.0x

If you are playing on either unknown map or faction, it will multiply score after you have applied the difficulty modifier. If you are using both, they add together to become a 1.4x modifier.

For example, killing an Assault Trooper with just your weapon on Silver with the game set to unknown/unknown will result in (200 + 20) * 1.2 * 1.4 = 369 points.

When a modifier results in a decimal point, the game always rounds down.

Extra Notes

There are a few things to note which I'll add here:

> Pull/Lash on a Guardian to remove his shield is worth 100% of the Power Assist Bonus pool.
> Recon Mine does not count as an assist power.
> The ragdoll must be from a power. Ragdolling an enemy with your heavy melee does not count towards the Power Assist Bonus.

The Values of the Pools

Cerberus

Assault Trooper
> Damage Score: 200
> Kill Bonus: 20
> Power Assist Bonus: 50

Centurion
> Damage Score: 300
> Kill Bonus: 30
> Power Assist Bonus: 75

Nemesis and Engineer
> Damage Score: 400
> Kill Bonus: 40
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Guardian
> Damage Score: 450
> Kill Bonus: 45
> Power Assist Bonus: 120

Engineer Turret
> Damage Score: 100
> Kill Bonus: 10
> Power Assist Bonus: 25

Dragoon
> Damage Score: 500
> Kill Bonus: 50
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Phantom
> Damage Score: 800
> Kill Bonus: 80
> Power Assist Bonus: 200

Atlas
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Geth

Geth Trooper
> Damage Score: 250
> Kill Bonus: 25
> Power Assist Bonus: 65

Geth Rocket Trooper, Geth Hunter, Geth Pyro, and Geth Bomber
> Damage Score: 400
> Kill Bonus: 40
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Geth Prime Drones(both)
> Damage Score: 50
> Kill Bonus: 5
> Power Assist Bonus: 10

Geth Prime
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Reapers

Cannibal
> Damage Score: 250
> Kill Bonus: 25
> Power Assist Bonus: 65

Marauder
> Damage Score: 350
> Kill Bonus: 35
> Power Assist Bonus: 90

Husk
> Damage Score: 150
> Kill Bonus: 15
> Power Assist Bonus: 40

Ravager
> Damage Score: 600
> Kill Bonus: 60
> Power Assist Bonus: 150

Swarmer
> Damage Score: 20
> Kill Bonus: 0
> Power Assist Bonus: 0

Brute
> Damage Score: 700
> Kill Bonus: 70
> Power Assist Bonus: 175

Banshee
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Collectors

Collector Trooper
> Damage Score: 250
> Kill Bonus: 25
> Power Assist Bonus: 65

Collector Captain
> Damage Score: 400
> Kill Bonus: 40
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Seeker Swarm
> Damage Score: 25
> Kill Bonus: 0
> Power Assist Bonus: 0

Collector Web
> Damage Score: 20
> Kill Bonus: 0
> Power Assist Bonus: 0

Abomination
> Damage Score: 200
> Kill Bonus: 20
> Power Assist Bonus: 50

Scion
> Damage Score: 650
> Kill Bonus: 65
> Power Assist Bonus: 150

Praetorian
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Edited by Cyonan, 24 January 2013 - 11:04 PM.

[IllusiveManJr]

I've noticed that when an enemy survives a missile spawn nuke, say a Praetorian with two bars of armor left and I finish it off, I get all the points for it. Or at least most of them. I feel bad when this happens.

[Eckswhyzed]

Thanks for the info.

Now let the killstealing begin

[Stardusk]

Cyonan wrote...

Yep. This is a thing now. I got a PM asking about how points are awarded so I played around with it a bit,

How it works

There are 3 pools worth of points you can get in a kill:

Damage Score: This makes up the bulk of the points, and is supposed to be proportional to the amount of damage you did to the target.

Kill Bonus: This is 10% of the Damage Score and is awarded to whoever gets the killing blow. A few summoned units do not have a Kill Bonus.

Power Assist Bonus: This is a bonus that players get for using a support power. Support powers count as anything that ragdolls the target or debuffs it. It works a bit strangely at times(Which I'll go through later in the post). Usually it is 25% of the Damage Score, but some units have slightly more, and a few summoned units have no Power Assist Bonus.

The Power Assist Pool

This will award a varying amount of points based on what you have used, and is really confusing at times on what exactly it's doing. What I've found so far:

> If your ability ragdolls the target without killing it, it is worth 100% of the pool.
> If your ability should have ragdolled it but didn't because of shields/barriers/armour, it gets 25% of the pool per cast.
> If your ability debuffs to do increased damage taken, you get a 25% of the pool.
> If your ability outright killed the target, you get 0% of the pool regardless of if it was supposed to ragdoll or debuff.

Ammo powers also do not count towards the bonus pool, and neither do powers which do not ragdoll or debuff.

Warp appears to be an oddity, granting only 15% of the pool per cast.

In the case of ragdoll powers on protected targets and them granting you 25% of the pool per cast, using Cryo Blast on a shielded Centurion 2 times without freezing it yields 50% of the Power Assist Bonus. Using it 4 times will yield 100% of the Power Assist Bonus.

Combos

Combos will award points based on the primer. Stasis -> Throw gives 100% of the Assist Power Bonus while Warp -> Throw gives 30%.

If the combo kills another target by AoE, then it awards 0% of the Assist Power Bonus pool.

Sabotage

It's well known that Backfire doesn't give points. It will award its' share of the damage to whatever previously hit the target, regardless of if it was the caster of Sabotage or somebody else.  If it kills the target, you also see the previous source of damage get the kill credit.

The AI hacking half counts as a full ragdoll effect for the purposes of the Power Assist Bonus pool.

Multiple Players

This is yet another place where it gets weird.

In theory, the game is supposed to figure out what % of the damage or assisting you've done, then award points based on that. If you did 50% of the damage then you get 50% of the Damage Score. The Power Assist Bonus pool is supposed to work in the same way based on what % of the assist powers you applied, with ragdoll effects being weighted 4x as much as debuffs.

However, the game will sometimes award too much of the point pools to the person with the killing blow. It's not currently known what causes this, and it requires more testing.

Whoever gets the killing blow will still be awarded the full Kill Bonus.

Difficulty Scaling

Points will scale up with difficulty. The modifiers for each difficulty is:

Bronze: 1.0x
Silver: 1.2x
Gold: 1.6x
Platinum: 2.0x

If you are playing on either unknown map or faction, it will multiply score after you have applied the difficulty modifier. If you are using both, they add together to become a 1.4x modifier.

For example, killing an Assault Trooper with just your weapon on Silver with the game set to unknown/unknown will result in (200 + 20) * 1.2 * 1.4 = 369 points.

When a modifier results in a decimal point, the game always rounds down.

The Values of the Pools

Cerberus

Assault Trooper
> Damage Score: 200
> Kill Bonus: 20
> Power Assist Bonus: 50

Centurion
> Damage Score: 300
> Kill Bonus: 30
> Power Assist Bonus: 75

Nemesis and Engineer
> Damage Score: 400
> Kill Bonus: 40
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Guardian
> Damage Score: 450
> Kill Bonus: 45
> Power Assist Bonus: 120

Engineer Turret
> Damage Score: 100
> Kill Bonus: 10
> Power Assist Bonus: 25

Dragoon
> Damage Score: 500
> Kill Bonus: 50
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Phantom
> Damage Score: 800
> Kill Bonus: 80
> Power Assist Bonus: 200

Atlas
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Geth

Geth Trooper
> Damage Score: 250
> Kill Bonus: 25
> Power Assist Bonus: 65

Geth Rocket Trooper, Geth Hunter, Geth Pyro, and Geth Bomber
> Damage Score: 400
> Kill Bonus: 40
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Geth Prime Drones(both)
> Damage Score: 50
> Kill Bonus: 5
> Power Assist Bonus: 10

Geth Prime
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Reapers

Cannibal
> Damage Score: 250
> Kill Bonus: 25
> Power Assist Bonus: 65

Marauder
> Damage Score: 350
> Kill Bonus: 35
> Power Assist Bonus: 90

Husk
> Damage Score: 150
> Kill Bonus: 15
> Power Assist Bonus: 40

Ravager
> Damage Score: 600
> Kill Bonus: 60
> Power Assist Bonus: 150

Swarmer
> Damage Score: 20
> Kill Bonus: 0
> Power Assist Bonus: 0

Brute
> Damage Score: 700
> Kill Bonus: 70
> Power Assist Bonus: 175

Banshee
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Collectors

Collector Trooper
> Damage Score: 250
> Kill Bonus: 25
> Power Assist Bonus: 65

Collector Captain
> Damage Score: 400
> Kill Bonus: 40
> Power Assist Bonus: 100

Seeker Swarm
> Damage Score: 25
> Kill Bonus: 0
> Power Assist Bonus: 0

Collector Web
> Damage Score: 20
> Kill Bonus: 0
> Power Assist Bonus: 0

Abomination
> Damage Score: 200
> Kill Bonus: 20
> Power Assist Bonus: 50

Scion
> Damage Score: 650
> Kill Bonus: 65
> Power Assist Bonus: 150

Praetorian
> Damage Score: 1000
> Kill Bonus: 100
> Power Assist Bonus: 250

Report to the ship, we'll bang ok?

[Cyonan]

IllusiveManJr wrote...

I've noticed that when an enemy survives a missile spawn nuke, say a Praetorian with two bars of armor left and I finish it off, I get all the points for it. Or at least most of them. I feel bad when this happens.

It's possible Cobra's don't award points unless it's a full kill.

I should also note(since I didn't want to add a speculation to the OP) that in the case of getting too many points for a kill I generally notice it when I'm using high powered weapons to horribly overkill a target.

I suspect that it's taking into account the damage of the full bullet, rather than just the 5-10% of it that actually was needed for the kill.

[Lovaas]

There you go, ksing is pointless and you will outscore them anyway.

[soulstriker09]

lol, you got around to doing it 

Cyonan wrote...
The Power Assist Pool

This will award a varying amount of points based on what you have used, and is really confusing at times on what exactly it's doing. What I've found so far:

> If your ability ragdolls the target without killing it, it is worth 100% of the pool.
> If your ability should have ragdolled it but didn't because of shields/barriers/armour, it gets 25% of the pool per cast.
> If your ability debuffs to do increased damage taken, you get a 25% of the pool.
> If your ability outright killed the target, you get 0% of the pool regardless of if it was supposed to ragdoll or debuff.

After nearly a year, you learn something new o__O

Cyonan wrote...
Multiple Players

This is yet another place where it gets weird.

Yeah, I agree, I get this the most I think when using Asari Valkyrie...
I think I may have a screenshot relevant to this somewhere.......

[Cyonan]

soulstriker09 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...
Multiple Players

This is yet another place where it gets weird.

Yeah, I agree, I get this the most I think when using Asari Valkyrie...
I think I may have a screenshot relevant to this somewhere.......

It's one of those things we could potentially not ever fully figure out.

Now I need to find one more test so I can fill my signature up in 2 full lines =P

[Dunvi]

GODDAMMIT CYONAN. Now I have to stalk you and find out where you live so I can creepily send you cookies.

I agree that the weird crap seems to happen when horribly overkilling something, but I suspect only for non-ragdolling kills, namely guns. In fact, I'm suspecting that ragdolling powers have a tendency to underaward, and non-ragdolling have a tendency to overaward. (Underawarding might be entirely explained by the power assist bonus, though.)

I'm assuming that the debuff award is only given if an enemy is damaged while under the debuffing effect (no assists on enemies who walk through your recon mine's radius unscathed).

The other thing I'm curious about is how the damage score is handled when dealing with regenerating shields, for example. Does the game track how much damage is done overall and award based percentage of all damage dealt? That would be the logical way, I can't think of a way it could be handled otherwise... That might account for some (but not all) of the stranger kill/assist awards. (Actually, it could account for all of them, if overall damage dealt is getting lost or overwritten in certain cases - notice that weird things usually happen on enemies one person has been whittling down for an extended period.)

ETA: Three more questions. I'm a little confused (perhaps just tired, though) by what you mean by combo points being awarded based on the primer. Can you elaborate?

Secondly, you say what happens when an enemy is killed by a combo's AoE (such as AoE from a biotic explosion), but not what happens when an enemy is damaged by a combo's AoE - does it count as a ragdolling power-assist, in the case of a BE or a cryo explosion? What about tech bursts (no force at all)?

Fire. Does fire (such as incinerate) get the power-assist bonus if you cause the burny-dance? Only if you cause the burny-dance?

ETA2: With exact numbers, I'm even more convinced that something weird is off. Most notably, my pre-buff expected-value of a guardian kill is completely off from the pre-buff numbers given your equation. I'm gonna play around with this... if I can remember... when I don't have a class in ~8 hours

ETA3: GODDAMMIT I NEED TO GO TO BED but I just had another thought. What if damage pool is incorrectly dividing points based on buffs to the damage being dealt? It would explain a lot - powers are notorious for not doing a lot of direct damage, and most of their damage as force, and combos and force have very few ways to gain bonuses. While direct damage (aka guns) can gain quite a bit of extra damage buffs... perhaps specifically multiplicative bonuses... how many powers are there in the game that award multiplicative buffs as opposed to multiplicative debuffs? I can only think of tac cloak, and of course infiltrators overkilling an enemy on one bar of armor is a fairly easy way to get a 1000 point kill...

Edited by Dunvi, 24 January 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[Computron2000]

Very nice info. Clears up some stuff i have had doubts about

[krjn09]

Thank you for this. Now I know why Fury gets more points killing a husk with powers than just by shooting it. And why GI BW will get almost full kill points from getting that last bar of armor of a brute. Big questions those.. It all makes sense now. Well.. kind of.  

[scot15]

Well this explains why my poor QFE worked her bum bum off against Reapers the other night and got less than 60k for her efforts.

[CptBananaPants]

It's like you're a wizard.

[Cyonan]

Dunvi wrote...

GODDAMMIT CYONAN. Now I have to stalk you and find out where you live so I can creepily send you cookies.

I agree that the weird crap seems to happen when horribly overkilling something, but I suspect only for non-ragdolling kills, namely guns. In fact, I'm suspecting that ragdolling powers have a tendency to underaward, and non-ragdolling have a tendency to overaward. (Underawarding might be entirely explained by the power assist bonus, though.)

I'm assuming that the debuff award is only given if an enemy is damaged while under the debuffing effect (no assists on enemies who walk through your recon mine's radius unscathed).

The other thing I'm curious about is how the damage score is handled when dealing with regenerating shields, for example. Does the game track how much damage is done overall and award based percentage of all damage dealt? That would be the logical way, I can't think of a way it could be handled otherwise... That might account for some (but not all) of the stranger kill/assist awards. (Actually, it could account for all of them, if overall damage dealt is getting lost or overwritten in certain cases - notice that weird things usually happen on enemies one person has been whittling down for an extended period.)

ETA: Three more questions. I'm a little confused (perhaps just tired, though) by what you mean by combo points being awarded based on the primer. Can you elaborate?

Secondly, you say what happens when an enemy is killed by a combo's AoE (such as AoE from a biotic explosion), but not what happens when an enemy is damaged by a combo's AoE - does it count as a ragdolling power-assist, in the case of a BE or a cryo explosion? What about tech bursts (no force at all)?

Fire. Does fire (such as incinerate) get the power-assist bonus if you cause the burny-dance? Only if you cause the burny-dance?

ETA2: With exact numbers, I'm even more convinced that something weird is off. Most notably, my pre-buff expected-value of a guardian kill is completely off from the pre-buff numbers given your equation. I'm gonna play around with this... if I can remember... when I don't have a class in ~8 hours

ETA3: GODDAMMIT I NEED TO GO TO BED but I just had another thought. What if damage pool is incorrectly dividing points based on buffs to the damage being dealt? It would explain a lot - powers are notorious for not doing a lot of direct damage, and most of their damage as force, and combos and force have very few ways to gain bonuses. While direct damage (aka guns) can gain quite a bit of extra damage buffs... perhaps specifically multiplicative bonuses... how many powers are there in the game that award multiplicative buffs as opposed to multiplicative debuffs? I can only think of tac cloak, and of course infiltrators overkilling an enemy on one bar of armor is a fairly easy way to get a 1000 point kill...

If all goes according to plan I'm moving across the country soon anyway, so you'll have to re-stalk me =P

For the debuffs, I was still getting the bonus after they wore off even if I did no damage(I haven't tested Recon mine specifically, I will tomorrow, but I suspect the scan part doesn't count for assists).

With Shield Regen that's one of the main things I still want to test, though I have noticed that over time the points appear to deminish. I'm not sure if this is tied to shield regeneration or just a generic timer.

I rewrote the combo section to make more sense and added a bit about it ragdolling targets but not killing them.

What happens is that it counts as a large damage ability that causes a ragdoll(it also awards points for challenges to the primer). If the combo ragdolls it will award the Power Assist Bonus, but if the combo outright kills the target, you get no bonus.

If your combo kills the target then your detonator does not count. Doing Warp -> Throw -> BE kill will give you 15% of the Power Assist Bonus(this is what I meant by tied to the primer, but I worded it rather badly). It only counts on a ragdoll(freezing is considered a ragdoll effect) so no Tech Bursts for the assist.

Fire Based effects do not grant Power Assist even if they cause the target to panic. Incinerate was giving me 0% of the pool.

A lot of things can be happening with not awarding points correctly. It's unfortunately one of those cases where either A. We'll never fully know what causes it or B. It will require very extensive testing with multiple people.

[mrwizeguy]

Like always good work cyonan .


i couldn't help standing at this :

"When a modifier results in a decimal point, the game always rounds down."

i wonder what else gets this rounding up and how it could affect the rest of the gameplay calculations.( multiple powers , weapon mods amps etc)

[Dracian]

Thanks ! Very interesting post !

[GallowsPole]

I've learned when good statistics coupled with the term "weird", makes a really good MP that rewards my teammates with my kills.

[Grammaton Dryad]

Thanks Cyonan

[ValorOfArms777]

I figured this was the case I'm glad I see the real point till now cause I knew some over points clicked in combined with the fact some players low budgeting for higher score cause it's obviouse how it's working

oh and enemy behavior tactics might be a good thing to study between the 4 factions

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

Now explain why Geth Plasma Shotgun facing "boss" enemies can get them down to 1 bar of armor then someone else finishes off the target and the Geth Plasma Shotgun user only gets about 280 points ....

[inversevideo]

GallowsPole wrote...

I've learned when good statistics coupled with the term "weird", makes a really good MP that rewards my teammates with my kills.

[P51Mus7ang]

Cyonan wrote...

I suspect that it's taking into account the damage of the full bullet, rather than just the 5-10% of it that actually was needed for the kill.

This must be the case, I get far too many points for finishing off an enemy even using your numbers, yet I am awarded squat when I have say a boss down to one bar and someone with a BW finishes it.

It`s not a big deal as I don`t care much about score but in a game where your kit will give a higher assist than kill, one`s score can and in my experience is way off.

It isn`t lag as I have noticed it as host and off host.

[Deerber]

Wow, Cyonan. Great work as always.

Thanks!

[GallowsPole]

I could be wrong, but I'm wondering if passives/amp bonuses play into any of this somehow. I don't pay a lot of attention to the kill feed, with the exception of the Justicar, and if reave finishes the unit off, a lot of times the kills all mine along with the points. There will also be times, that it seems I get the appropriate awarded points. Then again, this might fall into the "weird" category.

[Caratinoid]

You just made the Arena competition even more pointless, now everyone will have to 'milk' the non-objective waves as well.