94 replies to this topic

[Cyonan]

So I was running some tests on the Collectors, and I noticed that the Scion's damage didn't quite match up with my Justicar's damage reduction as according to our formula. My Biotic Sphere was reducing the damage by 40%, rather than the DR itself being reduced by 75%. Biotic Sphere + Reave would reduce it by 80%.

I checked it on my Krogan Sentinel and same thing. Tech Armour was reducing the damage by the full 50%. My first thought it "awesome, Collectors are bugged to suffer our full DR". Then I tested it on the Geth. Same result.

After testing some more the new formula for enemy damage that I came up with is:

((enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier) * cover_bonus) - (enemy_damage * difficulty_modifiers * DR) = final_damage

The difficulty_modifier for each difficulty is:

Bronze: 1.25x
Silver: 1.9x
Gold: 2.5x
Platinum: 3x

cover_bonus is either 1 if you are in cover, or 1.4 if you aren't.

Basically what I found is that damage reduction does not affect the enemy's "out of cover" damage bonus, but it does affect the rest of the damage by the amount listed. This means if you are in cover then you do in fact get the full damage reduction amount.

Admittedly this doesn't change things around a lot, except that being out of cover means you really need 140% DR rather than the previously believed 134%and being in cover means that your damage reduction is just as effective as it says it is.

So in general:

> Being out of cover means your DR is ~71.4% as effective as it says
> Being in cover means your DR is 100% as effective as it says

Edited by Cyonan, 26 January 2013 - 08:22 PM.

[Stahlhammer]

So the DR out of cover is still ~71.4% of the stated one.

P.S. I was just blessed with an awesome ide for you to do :P

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

Edited by Stahlhammer, 26 January 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Cyonan]

Stahlhammer wrote...

So the DR out of cover is still ~71.4% of the stated one.

Yeah around there.

The original formula didn't use a memory debugger to find it, which explains why they thought 75%. They did get fairly close to it.

[juli4n0liver]

that sound unnecessary complicated

[Stahlhammer]

Must quote myself 

Stahlhammer wrote...

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

[Battlepope190]

Why does any of this matter? Like...to anyone?

[Cyonan]

Stahlhammer wrote...

Must quote myself 

Stahlhammer wrote...

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

It wouldn't be that hard. I did some work on an effective health spreadsheet a while back.

[ZuzuAmandi]

Battlepope190 wrote...

Why does any of this matter? Like...to anyone?

Because knowing all the things is interesting and helps people to understand what's really going on in the game.

ME3 is a complicated game and often there are things that just make no sense until someone [like Cyonan] figures it out.

Also: If it doesn't matter, why did you read it?

[Homey C-Dawg]

juli4n0liver wrote...

that sound unnecessary complicated

All of the calculations in this game are unneccesarily complicated. Modifiers upon modifiers piled on top of each other. I've come to accept that the in-game information is never accurate, even when it's accurate.

OT: Thanks for the info Cyonan. Good to know.

Edited by Homey C-Dawg, 26 January 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Computron2000]

Battlepope190 wrote...

Why does any of this matter? Like...to anyone?

It means hard cover becomes more important for DR builds trying to squeeze out more.

On topic, good work. Its good to know this

[Cyonan]

Cyonan wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

Must quote myself 

Stahlhammer wrote...

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

It wouldn't be that hard. I did some work on an effective health spreadsheet a while back.

On this note, I had the idea(by which I really mean that ValorOfArms suggested it) of putting this information up on a website that isn't google docs or the Mass Effect wiki(They don't really like it when I prove them wrong).

It'd be kind of like Nardia's class build tooler except my own url(I already pay for hosting so it's not like it's costing me money), and I could code my own tools such as an effective health calculator with this.

Is this a thing people would actually be interested in me setting up?

This site also has some useful stuff for effective health, though I don't know how often it gets updated(they do have Collectors): http://anthill.thessianhaze.com/

[Computron2000]

Cyonan wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

Must quote myself 

Stahlhammer wrote...

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

It wouldn't be that hard. I did some work on an effective health spreadsheet a while back.

On this note, I had the idea(by which I really mean that ValorOfArms suggested it) of putting this information up on a website that isn't google docs or the Mass Effect wiki(They don't really like it when I prove them wrong).

It'd be kind of like Nardia's class build tooler except my own url(I already pay for hosting so it's not like it's costing me money), and I could code my own tools such as an effective health calculator with this.

Is this a thing people would actually be interested in me setting up?

This site also has some useful stuff for effective health, though I don't know how often it gets updated(they do have Collectors): http://anthill.thessianhaze.com/

Look at how many times people point to narida's on this forum. I think many will find it useful. Won't be huge number of hits unless it gets spread to other sites like gamesfaq or such

[Koenig888]

Cyonan wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

Must quote myself 

Stahlhammer wrote...

Would it be hard to make the effective health calcualtor for those characters with TA/BA/Barrier/Fortification etc.? 

It wouldn't be that hard. I did some work on an effective health spreadsheet a while back.

On this note, I had the idea(by which I really mean that ValorOfArms suggested it) of putting this information up on a website that isn't google docs or the Mass Effect wiki(They don't really like it when I prove them wrong).

It'd be kind of like Nardia's class build tooler except my own url(I already pay for hosting so it's not like it's costing me money), and I could code my own tools such as an effective health calculator with this.

Is this a thing people would actually be interested in me setting up?

This site also has some useful stuff for effective health, though I don't know how often it gets updated(they do have Collectors): http://anthill.thessianhaze.com/

Considering the wealth of information you and the other gurus have dug up, you should have your own Mass Effect website.

[Cyonan]

Computron2000 wrote...

Look at how many times people point to narida's on this forum. I think many will find it useful. Won't be huge number of hits unless it gets spread to other sites like gamesfaq or such

I'm pretty sure the sheets have been linked on a few other forums/sites.

I'd probably also set it up in such a way that I could repurpose the site into something else if I really wanted to(meaning I wouldn't name it using anything about Mass Effect, but that's hardly a big deal).

[k1ngl1ves]

Thanks! All of your info is greatly appreciated! Your own website would be fantastic too!!!

[Haersvaelg]

An info & tool site would be very nice to have.

[Deerber]

Great job, Cyonan! Unlikely as it might seem, that helps explaining weird things Tyhw were seeing the other day, while testing the Slayer's light melee. Thank you very much, as always!

Also,

Cyonan wrote...

On this note, I had the idea(by which I really mean that ValorOfArms suggested it) of putting this information up on a website that isn't google docs or the Mass Effect wiki(They don't really like it when I prove them wrong).

It'd be kind of like Nardia's class build tooler except my own url(I already pay for hosting so it's not like it's costing me money), and I could code my own tools such as an effective health calculator with this.

Is this a thing people would actually be interested in me setting up?

This site also has some useful stuff for effective health, though I don't know how often it gets updated(they do have Collectors): http://anthill.thessianhaze.com/

Yes, I'd be very interested in that myself.

Koenig888 wrote...

Considering the wealth of information you and the other gurus have dug up, you should have your own Mass Effect website.

QFT

[Maeson]

Well, all I can say is good job on the math... but by the gods do you guys have a lot of time...

My "equation": Enemy_damage*Hit_Modifier=shoot_back

Get_hit is either 1(got hit) or 0(no hit)

Shoot_back is always yes, no exceptions. Unless ED*GHM>My_health, then we get into the "Dead=Yes/No" area.

...I have no idea what I'm doing.

[Cassandra Saturn]

wow i once came up with my own Mass Effect Wiki, but it's for MP only. i'll see what i can do to bring it back. in meantime, i really enjoyed this information. it's really nice.

[sobit]

I dont think I understand. your formula is:

((enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier) * cover_bonus) - ((damage_damage * difficulty_modifiers) * (1 - DR)) = final_damage

but if I get 100% DR, then the term

((damage_damage * difficulty_modifiers) * (1 - DR))

falls away and only

((enemy_damage * difficulty_modifier) * cover_bonus)

remains, meaning I get full damage? what? This is about the damage I take on Kits with DR, right? TA, Fort, Barrier, etc.?

shouldn't it be (enemy_damage * difficulty_modifiers * DR) ?

also, I believe you meant enemy_damage instead of damage_damage.

EDIT: Forum font is BAD! your tilde( ~ ) looked a lot like a minus to me. maybe it's only my pc though. anyway, my point remains.

Edited by sobit, 26 January 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[Doctor Trick]

I don't really look at the raw data / numbers, but from my understanding, is damage_damage meant to be enemy_damage?

Thanks for the all hard work and making it easy to remember, DR is ~70% out of cover and ~100% in cover.

[sobit]

bump. cyonan get back in here.

[Cellodanceparty]

juli4n0liver wrote...

that sound unnecessary complicated

Come on, it's basic algebra. Seriously. 

[Doctor Trick]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I've always wondered ... how hard can it be for developers to have such formulas actually translate into the correct data the player needs?

Why say DR is 50% when you only get somewhat around 40%?


And I have to ask, is aiming from cover still considered in-cover, or do you only get the full DR if you're cowering behind a wall?

From just playing the game, I believe you get some damage reduction when firing from cover. It doesn't matter whether you have any DR from things like Tech Armour, although I would say that it would increase the DR you recieve.