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How to Vanguard


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#1
Deerber

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It's been a while since the last time I contributed to BSN's knowledge of the game, so here I am trying to share what my experience with this game has thought me, once again.




Today I'm gonna talk about Vanguards. Now, Vanguards' core ability is biotic charge. Since it is a power that puts you in melee range with the enemy, lots of players are afraid to use it on sync-capable opponents.

Those who play vanguards more are aware that most sync-capable enemies are perfectly safe to charge, so long as you know their animations and are capable of charging at the right time. Since I guess that most of those who are reading this are at this level or above, I am not going to delve into explaining how to safely charge say, a Brute.

But, even those players and bsners who regularly play Vanguards usually advice not to charge two enemies: Praetorians, and Banshees in teleport mode.

With this thread, I hope to be able to show you that it's indeed possible to safely charge a teleporting Banshee, under some quite general circumstances. It is also possible to charge Praetorians, but that requires more know-how and, in some cases, that you play a Slayer, so I will talk about it later.





How is it possible at all to charge teleporting Banshees? Aren't they primed for a sync-kill when they teleport? If they are, then it should not be possible to charge them safely when they teleport.

The point is... They are not. I think I understand why people have always believed, from the start of the game, that Banshees are primed for syncs when they teleport. It is because their sync-kill-primed stance actually happens sometimes during their teleport phase, and they are capable of switching to it surprisingly quickly. As a result, people have always mistaken the teleport phase as a whole for the sync-kill priming.

But the truth is different. Have you ever seen a Banshee teleporting around and then stopping for a while, walk a bit, and then start teleporting again? I'm sure you have. Well, that is their sync kill stance. When they walk around while in teleport phase. Do not, I repeat, do not approach them when they do that, it's the recipe for spectator mode.

So, when do they switch to the sync-primed stance? It's pretty easy: whenever there is a player in sync-kill range. But, and here is the key point, it takes a while for them to do that. Mind you, a very short while. But still, it takes time. If you dodge as soon as a Banshee teleports next to you, for example, you won't get synced, at least on host.

The time being so short is the reason why everyone has always believed they are primed when they teleport.

But, thing that is more of interest to us, the fact that there is a time, even if very short, is what actually allows us to safely charge Banshees while they teleport. Let me show you how.

It is safely doable under the following circumstances:

- you use a dodge-capable Vanguard

- you host.

Failure to follow either of these two requirements usually leads to spectator mode, although there are exceptions.

I will not take any responsability for the sync kills that happen if you fail to meet those prerequisites! :P

A word of warning: timing and reflexes are quite important, in order to do this correctly. Although if you dodge immediately the Banshee cannot grab you the first time, she might teleport again, next to the place where you dodged to, putting you in the position of risking a sync. If that happens, you need to have quick reflexes and dodge again. However, if your timing is good, that almost never happens. The "right" time is hard to describe, and it's something that can only be learned by doing it over and over again, I guess. I hope the video shows that enough for people to get a hang of it.

Obviously, you should not, under any circumstance, charge a Banshee while she walks during teleport mode. This is what happens if you do :whistle:






Now, onto Praetorians.

I have not talked about the ways to charge Bansees while they're in warp-mode because well... It's fairly easy honestly :P

But for Praetorians, I will give a quick explanation of when it is safe to charge them, always assuming you play a dodge capable Vanguard on host. Basically, it's safe to do so whenever the Praetorian is engaged in some form of animation apart from the melee one.

That includes lazoring, missiling, sync-killing someone, lunging forward, becoming possessed and, mostly, hovering around. Yes, when they float you can charge them without worrying to get synced, if you dodge back fast enough. You won't damage them because of the lolbubble, but you'll still replenish your shields, plus force them on the ground if you need it.

Those are the only moments when it's safe to charge them with "normal" Vanguards. They account for a very big part of their in-game existance anyway, so it's mostly possible to do that.

But there are some moments in which they just walk on the ground, without performing any animation. In those moment, there is only one Vanguard that can (somewhat) safely charge them, and it's the Slayer.

If your dodge timing is good enough, you'll dodge out of the sync range before getting staggered by the melee, which will make it impossible for the Praetorian to sync you. Still, you will take damage from the melee since it's super quick, and the damage will be quite substantial too. Depending on your build, consumables, and the situation, charging them in this state might, or might not, be good for your shields.

However, there is always a slight change of getting synced when you try this, and you should be aware of that. I estimate it as no more than 5-10%, so it's pretty low, but it's still there, and it's noticeable. It's not exactly clear to me what causes these syncs, but I'm guessing that when the timing of the dodge becomes so essential, even one slight derping from the engine can result in something that does not usually happen.

The video includes a part where I show how to charge Praetorians with a Slayer. Some charges happen during animations, but some of them happen when they just walk around too.



Finally, I apologize for the low quality of the vid and the audio being slightly un-synced in some parts. It's because I recorded the different footages at different times, and some of them are quite old and at the time I still recorded at a very low quality. VDub also had some problem with the audio sync while putting the vids together, so... I hope it doesn't annoy you too much.




Well... I think that's all I had to say, really. I hope this can help some people to improve theire handle of Vanguards, and of the game as a whole :happy: If you have any question, comment, or constructive criticism please, do post a reply here. I will answer to the best of my abilities and/or take note of it.


Also, as a separate note, I have decided to change the settings of my YouTube channel so that my videos are now public. Some people asked me to and I realized there was really no reason not to comply. I hope people enjoy the vids as much as I enjoyed making them :happy:

Edited by Deerber, 06 August 2013 - 09:07 PM.

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#2
TMB903

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Tl;dr












.........jk man :D Nice guide. Listen to this guy...he knows vanguards....and he's my DrellGod brother:devil:

Edited by TMB903, 06 August 2013 - 09:31 PM.


#3
Marek Intan

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Good work! This may be Library material.

#4
Arctican

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Good guide. Still learning about new stuff after year of playing.
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#5
MaxCrushmore

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Have any tips specific for the Drell Vanguard?

I'm more referring to Gold + difficulty as I currently have had a few practice runs in Silver, but he is typically too dominant for that level .. but I haven't figured out the best way for higher difficulties ...

On my alt profile I have unlocked this character and have begun to play it ...

PS. Is it typical to use aoe weapon w incendiary ammo to prime groups? Then Charge, grenade, grenade?

Edited by MaxCrushmore, 06 August 2013 - 09:23 PM.


#6
Belahzur

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tl;dr only charge banshee on stairs pretty much sums it up :)

#7
dragaaan

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i actually read all of this :D
btw where is my DV video?? ive been waiting for that for quite a while now ;)

#8
robarcool

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MaxCrushmore wrote...

Have any tips specific for the Drell Vanguard?

I'm more referring to Gold + difficulty as I currently have had a few practice runs in Silver, but he is typically too dominant for that level .. but I haven't figured out the best way for higher difficulties ...

On my alt profile I have unlocked this character and have begun to play it ...

PS. Is it typical to use aoe weapon w incendiary ammo to prime groups? Then Charge, grenade, grenade?

Use a claymore with incendiary cheese, throw lots of grenades post charge. That's about it.

#9
MaxCrushmore

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^^ how bad does the Claymore slow down his BC recharge?

Currently I'm using the Hurricane on him and can spam really fast BCs ...

#10
robarcool

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MaxCrushmore wrote...

^^ how bad does the Claymore slow down his BC recharge?

Currently I'm using the Hurricane on him and can spam really fast BCs ...

5 sec cooldown with weapon damage evo in passive instead of weight evo. Thing is, if you don't get in an extremely bad situation, you won't need really low cooldown.

Edited by robarcool, 06 August 2013 - 09:40 PM.


#11
cato potato

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Marek Intan wrote...

Good work! This may be Library material.


Agreed. Good stuff Deerber.

#12
dragaaan

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MaxCrushmore wrote...

^^ how bad does the Claymore slow down his BC recharge?

Currently I'm using the Hurricane on him and can spam really fast BCs ...


4.65 seconds but it works really well, though most of bsn will tell you to use the raider wraith or talon. all of them work well because the drellgod is amazing

#13
Creator Limbs

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bookmarked for later reading I suppose.

#14
Deerber

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Thanks everyone :happy:

Belahzur wrote...

tl;dr only charge banshee on stairs pretty much sums it up :)


Actually no, it does not. At all :D

dragaaan wrote...

i actually read all of this :D
btw where is my DV video?? ive been waiting for that for quite a while now ;)


You're right man! I forgot about it. Thought you didn't like it enough to share it? Anyway I'll upload it tomorrow and then send it to you to review it ;)

dragaaan wrote...

MaxCrushmore wrote...

^^ how bad does the Claymore slow down his BC recharge?

Currently I'm using the Hurricane on him and can spam really fast BCs ...


4.65 seconds but it works really well, though most of bsn will tell you to use the raider wraith or talon. all of them work well because the drellgod is amazing


Actually, I think bost of bsn will advice you to use a claymore :D Me, I prefer the Wraith or, mostly, the Raider. Doesn't mean the Claymore doesn't work wonders on him, though!

MaxCrushmore wrote...

Have any tips specific for the Drell Vanguard? 

I'm more referring to Gold + difficulty as I currently have had a few practice runs in Silver, but he is typically too dominant for that level .. but I haven't figured out the best way for higher difficulties ...

On my alt profile I have unlocked this character and have begun to play it ...

PS. Is it typical to use aoe weapon w incendiary ammo to prime groups? Then Charge, grenade, grenade?


I have a Drellguard video planned for the next future. If you stay tuned, I'm gonna show how I rock him. Otherwise if you really wanna know it now, send me a PM an I'll try to explain the best I can ;)

#15
palmof40sorrows

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But why give yourself so many piranha rounds but not change the number in the mag? Or is that not possible? Not trolling, just curious.

#16
MaxCrushmore

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Ill patiently await the video and i'll just keep practicing till then ... hopefully i'll land in more good quality PUG lobbies, hence enabling me to play that much squishier a character ...

#17
dragaaan

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i remember a couple of months ago there was a thread about the DV and me and a small amount of others fought for claymore domination (dem style points) but A LOT of bsn celebs voted for talon/wraith

and damn im waiting for it :D

#18
ROBOTICSUPERMAN

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Good stuff. Now there is no reason for pugs to get their vanguards sync killed. Now I you could just write a guide for every thing else in game, then maybe you could do the impossible...educate pugs!

If a banshee melees you and hits, does she not enter sync kill walking stance? If so, add it to your guide pls :)

#19
Randomical

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Half of the problem with charging sync-killing enemies is that you may get staggered immediately after the charge ends. And even if the enemy wasn't "primed" for the sync-kill in the beginning, it may become during the stagger. 100% of my human vanguard's deaths are related to this.
Thanks for the info anyway!

#20
oldharryold

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i can see doing this to try to draw aggro
doing this purely for a shield regen seems a bit reckless
doing this to get your weapon or power synergy up, then dodge back & throw grenades/shoot seems viable (except for novaguard specced for power synergy)

#21
Andr0idOS

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Randomical wrote...

Half of the problem with charging sync-killing enemies is that you may get staggered immediately after the charge ends. And even if the enemy wasn't "primed" for the sync-kill in the beginning, it may become during the stagger. 100% of my human vanguard's deaths are related to this.
Thanks for the info anyway!

This is just my opinion, but I find you only get stun-locked to death if you charge into the middle of a big group of enemies and don't dodge right away. What works for me is, if you're going to charge, say, a spawn then try to get one of the guys on the outer edge of the spawn and near cover so that you can quickly charge him, and dodge away to cover instantly after the BC. (Or if a novaguard, BC-dodge-nova-dodge-shotgun to the face-repeat.) I personally find the novaguard's survival to go up significantly higher if your always dodging after every BC/nova. That way, unless you mess up and don't get out of range, you can safely charge every sync-kill unit except banshees/praetorians. (As explained by OP, you just need good timing to safely charge those guys)

Great post OP, good to see more of my fellow vanguards. Before reading this, I never charged a banshee unless she was in an animation or if her back was facing me. I'm sure your tips will be very helpful for me, hopefully now I can contribute more DPS against those freaking banshees. I've never had to much problems with praetorians though, but regardless it's good info.

oldharryold wrote...

i can see doing this to try to draw aggro
doing this purely for a shield regen seems a bit reckless 
doing this to get your weapon or power synergy up, then dodge back & throw grenades/shoot seems viable (except for novaguard specced for power synergy)


Once again, this is just my opinion, but I find not enough vanguards charge an enemy just for the sake of restoring their shields, instead they try to take cover or run away or whatever. If your shields are gone, and there's an enemy nearby, why wouldn't  you charge them to restore shields? Unless your talking about banshee/praetorians, in which case charging them for shields is viable, you just have to have good timing, not be stupid, and only charge them in emergencies, like your down to one health bar and getting shot and there's no other enemy in range.

Edited by Andr0idOS, 06 August 2013 - 10:33 PM.


#22
Dilandau3000

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How to Vanguard:
1. Biotic Charge
2. ???
3. ProfitSync kill.

Seriously though, I find the Asari Vanguard can ice skate her way out of any sync kill. Sync kill enemies have never been a problem for my vanguards except if there's more than one of them close together. Or when a banshee teleports through a wall and just grabs me, which always leads me to wanting to yell on voice chat "I didn't charge her, I swear!" Posted Image

Edited by Dilandau3000, 06 August 2013 - 10:34 PM.


#23
cronshaw

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 I'll just continue to rely on luck:P

Seriously though good info
Banshees are a pain in the ass, but your info would explain why i've been grabbed when i though i shouldn't be
Never reallyt had a problem with snyc kills from any other enemy

#24
chcknwng

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MaxCrushmore wrote...

Ill patiently await the video and i'll just keep practicing till then ... hopefully i'll land in more good quality PUG lobbies, hence enabling me to play that much squishier a character ...


1. Host
2. Equip Venom
3. Stagger and Prime.
4. Throw tons of Grenades. 
5.****
6. Profit.

I'm still not where I wanted to be with him. I can play DA fairly safely on Gold+, but die too much with DV.

IMO this is the most fun class to play because of the adrenaline rush you get from the speed of actions taking place around you. Whoever said it's like going to an S&M club without a safety word describes it perfectly. 

Deerber you rock a hell of a DV. That footage is pure joy to watch.

#25
cronshaw

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wngmv wrote...

MaxCrushmore wrote...

Ill patiently await the video and i'll just keep practicing till then ... hopefully i'll land in more good quality PUG lobbies, hence enabling me to play that much squishier a character ...


1. Host
2. Equip Venom
3. Stagger and Prime.
4. Throw tons of Grenades. 
5.****
6. Profit.

I'm still not where I wanted to be with him. I can play DA fairly safely on Gold+, but die too much with DV.

IMO this is the most fun class to play because of the adrenaline rush you get from the speed of actions taking place around you. Whoever said it's like going to an S&M club without a safety word describes it perfectly. 

Deerber you rock a hell of a DV. That footage is pure joy to watch.


I just run around like a crazy person hucking grenades and charging everything
Is that the wrong way to play him?