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The Viper (or How to Alchemist)


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#1
-PenguinFetish-

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Abilities 
 
- Stealth (50% damage bonus when attacking from stealth. 29s duration. 24s cooldown. 20 stamina cost. Upgrade enters stealth instantly, removes all debilitating effects and lets you pass through enemies.)
 
- Flank Attack (2 hits at 200% weapon damage each. 8s cooldown. 35 stamina cost. Upgrade enters you in stealth after attacking.)
 
- Flask of Fire (Abilities cost no stamina for 5s. 20 stamina cost. 32s cooldown. Upgrade removes any cooldown on abilities too.)
 
- Poison Blades (Coat weapons in poison for 10s, poisons enemies hit for 8s at 25% weapon damage per second. 24s cooldown. 20s stamina cost. Upgrade grants 25% damage bonus while active.) 
 
Mandatory Passives
 
- Explosive Toxin (Enemies that die while poisoned explode into a toxic mist across 3m for 8s dealing 50% weapon damage per second) 
 
- I Was Never Here (Kills remove stealth cooldown)
 
- Killers Alchemy (15% damage bonus for 10s when Flasks are activated)
 
Unlock Order
 
Go straight for the upgraded Flank Attack first (level 5), then go for upgraded Flask of Fire (level 10). Then get upgraded Poison Blades (level 12), Explosive Toxin (level 14) and I Was Never Here (level 16). Get Killers Alchemy, then fill in the rest of your passives as you desire.
 
Strategy
 
Firstly, this class is severely lacking in syngery. I have spent the most time on this one, promoting her 3 times in total in order to find a build that flows well and is also viable on the higher difficulties. In a way, I failed, because this is just not viable for Perilous without high level daggers. Hell, even threatening is a challenge if you don't have daggers with over 100 base damage. This class is also noticeably underpowered until you hit around level 15, where you get all your mandatory passives and abilities. I wanted to do a build which is unique to the Alchemist aswell, and not one that is too similar to the Assassin. Here is what I came up with. 
 
I first tried out Elemental Mines. Good in theory, but in the end, I found that while they were on cooldown with Flask of Fire, I didn't really have anything else to do. They also missed a lot, and you cant really control where they land. Enemies also don't walk over them reliably. They worked great at the boss wave, because of the chokepoint, but not very good for anything else. 
 
I then tried out Flask of Frost and Shadow Strike/Twin Fangs build. Twin fangs hit registration is horrible so I dropped that almost immediately as the recovery from a missed attack = instadeath (because the alchemist is made of paper apparently). Shadow Strike is bugged and does not trigger 'I Was Never Here', so again, that was pretty non functional. Flask of Frost and Fire can't be active at the same time either, so in my opinion, its not worth the large cooldowns for this build. 
 
Lastly, I tried Flank Attack. It doesn't deal the damage that Twin Fangs or Shadow Strike does, but it does reliably hit targets and the upgraded version of it puts you in stealth after each attack. It also has a very fast cooldown, so you aren't waiting around for too long. After using Flask of Fire, you can attack 4, sometimes even 5 times, all of which will be a critical hit (due to Knife in the Shadows) and also receive the Stealth damage bonus. Poison Blades and Explosive Toxin deals a good amount of damage over time which more often than not, will finish off any enemies already wounded by you and also soften up any that are still around you.  
 
So your general strategy is to stay almost permanently in stealth. You are far too weak to be out of it and its really your only form of survivability. Flank Attack and I Was Never Here should enable you to be more or less in stealth close to 100% of the time. Now, get behind an enemy group. When the enemies are aggroed, activate Poison Blades (this does not break stealth). Then position yourself in such a way that you will hit multiple enemies if you can when dashing forwards through your target. Pop Flask of Fire (this WILL break stealth) and spam flank attack on as many different enemies as you can. You shouldn't get anyone targeting you as you cloaking right after decloaking, and you are moving far too quickly for anyone to hit you anyway.
 
When facing the boss, ignore him. You can and will be OHKed from the Templar and Demon commander (Venatori is still a walkover though). Your job is to thin out the mooks coming to attack the rest of your team. This is where Explosive Toxin comes in handy, because if anyone does get through you, they will be at reduced health, thus much easier to take down. Please note that only 1 Explosive Toxin cloud can be active at any given time, so make sure you choose your target carefully. 
 
Lastly, try and have fun. I find that the Alchemist is argubly the weakest class in the game, (tied with the Katari). This is the most optimal build I could come up with, and I find it is the best Alchemist build for me to use. If you want a more single target damaging build, just use the Assassin. She is much better at this role. The alchemist is better suited to crowd control, one of the only things it actually does better than the Assassin. 
 
 
 

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#2
SicMirx

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This sounds pretty fun. I always see Alchies using jelly beans and didn't want to with mine.

#3
DarthLinebacker

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Firstly, this class is severely lacking in syngery.


I knew I wasn't crazy when I just kept looking at her trees and going "what am I supposed to do?"

#4
chriseggroll

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I was never here is in the assassin tree, you can't have two specializations

#5
SicMirx

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I was never here is in the assassin tree, you can't have two specializations


Umm... Multiplayer forum.

#6
PulmonaryMuffin

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My alchemist is a complete mess. Thanks for this idea! Now I can mop up the disaster I created with my point distribution.  



#7
Shinnyshin

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Welp, I'm both relieved and disappointed others aren't finding a way to bring it all together.  Felt like I was going mad just looking at her build options.



#8
IamTheAttack

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Hey Penguin, thanks for posting this, i ll probably try this on my third alchemist promote.

 

1/Do you know if the poison dot from poison blade stack with poison cloud? (I am looking to achieve poison challenge kills it's hard :/)

2/Are you really effective at killing stuff? I really feel assassin is better and the poison dot does too low damage.



#9
Aedh

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I was in a few threatening games with you yesterday, and was going to send you a PM about your alchemist build (as I didn't see if you used Poison Blades or Toxic Cloud).

 

Thanks a lot for sharing, I will definitely give this a try when I promote Luka again.



#10
-PenguinFetish-

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I was in a few threatening games with you yesterday, and was going to send you a PM about your alchemist build (as I didn't see if you used Poison Blades or Toxic Cloud).

Thanks a lot for sharing, I will definitely give this a try when I promote Luka again.


I was most likely using a different build listed. You also probably heard me complaining about how sub par she is compared to other classes :P

#11
J. Peterman

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I'll give this a try. I took one look at the skill tree and just said "Nope". Too similar to the assassin, but not quite as good.



#12
-PenguinFetish-

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I'll give this a try. I took one look at the skill tree and just said "Nope". Too similar to the assassin, but not quite as good.


This build focuses on crowd control rather than single target dps. I think this is a pretty optimal build while still maintaining a unique character. Otherwise yes its basically a poor mans assassin

#13
EnemySpinach

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I play mine almost the same way, except I still use Elemental Mines instead of poison. I've always excelled with "lobbing" effects (Like grenades/ grenade launchers/ guns with arcing lobs like the Acolyte in ME3, etc) and this game is no exception; I can get them where I need them the vast majority of the time (and the times I don't are because something happened, like the enemy suddenly started moving towards an ally instead.)

But yeah, a heavy emphasis on stealth is definitely the way to play her.



#14
-PenguinFetish-

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I play mine almost the same way, except I still use Elemental Mines instead of poison. I've always excelled with "lobbing" effects (Like grenades/ grenade launchers/ guns with arcing lobs like the Acolyte in ME3, etc) and this game is no exception; I can get them where I need them the vast majority of the time (and the times I don't are because something happened, like the enemy suddenly started moving towards an ally instead.)

But yeah, a heavy emphasis on stealth is definitely the way to play her.

How many of your mines actually hit when in open areas? Because maybe 10% of mine would hit despite me chucking them in the enemies pathway.

#15
EnemySpinach

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How many of your mines actually hit when in open areas? Because maybe 10% of mine would hit despite me chucking them in the enemies pathway.

The way the enemies clump up, I can usually get 3-5 in the spread. So as much as 75% on a good group.

On a single target, though, yeah, not as much. Though if solo (example: allies already bled out) I can usually kite them through the rest.



#16
lolomc

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Nice one Penguin. I play with Toxic Cloud instead of Blades. I also exchanged Stealth with Flask of Frost, just to get away from the Assassin feel alike, it is nice to get some CC and imergency defence. But with the removal of Flask of Frost with Flask of Lightning i have to see.

But i hope they do something about the control of mines, which actually is a main skill for the alchemist



#17
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Nice one Penguin. I play with Toxic Cloud instead of Blades. I also exchanged Stealth with Flask of Frost, just to get away from the Assassin feel alike, it is nice to get some CC and imergency defence. But with the removal of Flask of Frost with Flask of Lightning i have to see.
But i hope they do something about the control of mines, which actually is a main skill for the alchemist


I used poison blades soley because it doesnt break cloak. Toxic cloud does, and i ended up dying a lot mid animation. (Flask of fire broke cloak and the toxic cloud animation finished me off)

#18
Blackstork

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Great job mate!

This  is best build i had before i left DAI MP for good till it gets patched.

But after 5 Alchy reincarnations i found exactly  this build being the best (and very sadly - only one) one. I called it poison threader. It is exactly same, and gj to bringing it all together up. 

Still shining in groups it is rather weak with single target but great for clean up and peel trash.

 

I hope BW polish DA MP and it will be more balanced and enjoyable. Too pity that so nice background class ended to be the class that have only one viable build which is good mainly for aoe cleanup.

 

This is 100% best and only viable alchy build for Perilous  for Alchy. Other builds are rather weak or require team babysitting with barriers/ proper taunt peeling atm. This game is unbalanced for now. Thats fact, but it is very fun class, and the good news it have one solid build.



#19
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Great job mate!

This  is best build i had before i left DAI MP for good till it gets patched.

But after 5 Alchy reincarnations i found exactly  this build being the best (and very sadly - only one) one. I called it poison threader. It is exactly same, and gj to bringing it all together up. 

Still shining in groups it is rather weak with single target but great for clean up and peel trash.

 

I hope BW polish DA MP and it will be more balanced and enjoyable. Too pity that so nice background class ended to be the class that have only one viable build which is good mainly for aoe cleanup.

 

This is 100% best and only viable alchy build for Perilous  for Alchy. Other builds are rather weak or require team babysitting with barriers/ proper taunt peeling atm. This game is unbalanced for now. Thats fact, but it is very fun class, and the good news it have one solid build.

 

 

Thanks :) Yeah it is perilous viable, but only with level 21+ daggers id say. Its just too weak without god tier daggers.



#20
Scorpio989

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My Alchemist works fine on Perilous with Fire Flask, Frost Flask, Stealth, and Shadow Strike. I can easily get 50+ class combos in a game regardless of difficulty... People need to start using Frost Flask more because it's likely the best Freeze skill in the game at the moment. Alchemist is clearly meant to be supportive as it can start multiple combos and finish multiple combos during every room.



#21
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My Alchemist works fine on Perilous with Fire Flask, Frost Flask, Stealth, and Shadow Strike. I can easily get 50+ class combos in a game regardless of difficulty... People need to start using Frost Flask more because it's likely the best Freeze skill in the game at the moment. Alchemist is clearly meant to be supportive as it can start multiple combos and finish multiple combos during every room.

 

How can it chain multiple combos? You can't have fire flask and frost flask active at the same time, else id completely agree with you. You can only get 1 combo yourself per Frost flask which is on a 32 second cooldown. 



#22
Scorpio989

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I was not talking about using both flasks in combination to self detonate but rather work off what your party is doing combo wise.

However It is apparently possible to extend the freeze duration of Frost Flask enough to detonate with Fire Flask from a build my friend has shown me earlier this week. I don't think that it's practical enough to use though.

 

Ice Flask Example:

 

Ally uses a CC pull such as Pull of the Abyss or War Cry. (This also works for corner luring)

You rush in and activate Frost Flask freezing the whole group.

You and your party proceed to detonate the group. This is an excellent method for wiping small rooms on Perilous in seconds. (Spell Purge and Dispel are likely the best detonators for this method)

 

Fire Flask Example:

 

Your ally uses an AoE stun/freeze/sleep/paralyze on a group of enemies.

You activate Fire Flask and use your impact on each enemy inflicted detonating them.



#23
Rhaine

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I agree with scorpio, have atleast some support in your alchemist build or play a different class, its damage will not compare to others.

 

Now, flask of frost gives great utility as does knockout bomb.



#24
PvtNiss

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Alchemist might do alright played like an assassin. Would miss cull the herd to really kick stray mobs in the nuts and other DPS hammering on what you are attacking can be a pain in the ass. I'm going to try Stealth, Flank Attack, Twin Fangs and Flask of Fire.

Playing it like an assassin popping in and out of stealth with I Was Never Here, Ambush, Knife in the Shadows and Dance of Death. Instead of throwing a 1800% weapon damage Hidden Blades once a while you pop Flask of fire and spam 1000% weapon damage Twin fangs repeatedly. Use the upgraded instant stealth as much as you can/lag lets you for that 50% damage bonus and auto critical hit during flask. Sucks ass if the target is moving I imagine.  <_<  But more effective against multiple weak enemies or something standing still. Several non stealth twin fangs are also crits as Sneak Attack passive is mandatory. You can still support the group by having the Disable and And Take Them Down passive. Alternate build would be without the fireflask burst of twin fangs and instead taking flask of frost to aoe freeze for extra group support and setting up combos.

My skills would be,

Lv2 Ambush
Lv3 Unforgiving Chain
Lv4 Knife in the shadows
Lv5 Twin Fangs
Lv6 Shadow Strike
Lv7 I Was Never Here
Lv8 Easy to Miss
Lv9 Sneak Attack
Lv10 Dance of Death
Lv11 Lost in the shadows
Lv12 Fighting Dirty
Lv13 Flask of Fire
Lv14 Unquenchable flames
Lv15 Killer's Alchemy
Lv16 Flank Attack
Lv17 Skirmisher
Lv18 Ripping Fangs
Lv19 and 20 grab any 2 passives like Disable, Gaps in the armor, Bloodied prey or And take them down.

I would probably choose Disable and And take them down for the team support. 10% damage wouldn't be a big increase at that point and you already get to bypass 50% armor rating. Don't think mobs have a huge amount of armor anyway.



#25
Blackstork

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Alchemist might do alright played like an assassin. Would miss cull the herd to really kick stray mobs in the nuts and other DPS hammering on what you are attacking can be a pain in the ass. I'm going to try Stealth, Flank Attack, Twin Fangs and Flask of Fire.

Playing it like an assassin popping in and out of stealth with I Was Never Here, Ambush, Knife in the Shadows and Dance of Death. Instead of throwing a 1800% weapon damage Hidden Blades once a while you pop Flask of fire and spam 1000% weapon damage Twin fangs repeatedly. Use the upgraded instant stealth as much as you can/lag lets you for that 50% damage bonus and auto critical hit during flask. Sucks ass if the target is moving I imagine.  <_<  But more effective against multiple weak enemies or something standing still. Several non stealth twin fangs are also crits as Sneak Attack passive is mandatory. You can still support the group by having the Disable and And Take Them Down passive. Alternate build would be without the fireflask burst of twin fangs and instead taking flask of frost to aoe freeze for extra group support and setting up combos.

My skills would be,

Lv2 Ambush
Lv3 Unforgiving Chain
Lv4 Knife in the shadows
Lv5 Twin Fangs
Lv6 Shadow Strike
Lv7 I Was Never Here
Lv8 Easy to Miss
Lv9 Sneak Attack
Lv10 Dance of Death
Lv11 Lost in the shadows
Lv12 Fighting Dirty
Lv13 Flask of Fire
Lv14 Unquenchable flames
Lv15 Killer's Alchemy
Lv16 Flank Attack
Lv17 Skirmisher
Lv18 Ripping Fangs
Lv19 and 20 grab any 2 passives like Disable, Gaps in the armor, Bloodied prey or And take them down.

I would probably choose Disable and And take them down for the team support. 10% damage wouldn't be a big increase at that point and you already get to bypass 50% armor rating. Don't think mobs have a huge amount of armor anyway.

The problem that while Viper offers constant stealth and ok damage (which is dot, and spread over targets), and Frost Flask Freeze and DR, your build is prone... to everything.. ranged, magic, melee.. you will be toast, before you finish your 4th twin fangs

 

And i agree with posters above. Alch is support class.