48 replies to this topic

[Pork]

Alright, lets try this again, it would be a shame to let a good resource go to waste due to rabble rousing in the other thread:

 

So I saw this video by my good friend Penguin (some of you may know him), and thought it would be good to share this video with BSN. He makes a pretty compelling case for cool beats as a primary offensive tool. Link here.

 

 

@Dragonracer, could you be a dear and add this to the resource library? Im sure it would be appreciated. 

 

Our very own Snakebite has some pretty good video demonstrations in case you need convincing of Cool Beat effectiveness. You can find his channel here: https://www.youtube....er/snakebite556. Please keep in mind that he is very well promoted, so your damage numbers may not be as high as his, but his gameplay and strategy is spot on. 

 

Any additional advice or critiques (please keep it civil!) for Zither! gameplay is welcome.

[Wavebend]

As Drasca pointed out, the numbers are wrong.

 

It's 300% every 2 second (like many other flawed DoT abilities, regardless of what the skill's description may imply).

Without Long Solo, it ticks 5 times for 1500% total.

With Long Solo, it ticks 7 times for 2100% total.

DoT doesn't benefit from crit/flanking bonuses and can only be applied once, regardless of the source.

 

PC deals 750% damage (+ possible crit / flanking bonuses) when enemies are within 2m, which makes it much better than I initially thought.

 

I always use both.

[Pork]

DoT doesn't benefit from crit/flanking bonuses and can only be applied once, regardless of the source.

 

 

This is just not true. DoT from cool beats stacks if you apply it via different enemies close by (hitting twice with CB won't stack it of course). Very easy to spot the separate numbers ticking over in the video I linked.

 

Thanks @Drasca for running the numbers, I didn't know it ticked every two seconds, while this certainly affects single target DPS, the stacking is where this skill really shines. Can't say im surprised to see that tooltops are incorrect as per usual though.

[Drasca]

PC deals 750% damage (+ possible crit / flanking bonuses) when enemies are within 2m, which makes it much better than I initially thought.

 

Is additonally a detonator. Very high potential detonation damage bonus spirit damage. Triggers Team Combos and more exp.

[Wavebend]

via different enemies

 

exactly.

[Proto]

Pork, Wavebend is correct.

 

Snakebite and I ran multiple duo runs using Zither. Only one Cool Beats can be applied at a time. The "apply it via different enemies close by" is not what he is referring to. What you are describing is Cool Beats upgrade.

 

The one exception to this is if you cast two at exactly the same time. Mob will take initial damage from both, but only one will do DOT.

[Pork]

exactly.

When you said regardless of the source, I thought you meant including the upgrade function too.

[Pork]

PC deals 750% damage (+ possible crit / flanking bonuses) when enemies are within 2m, which makes it much better than I initially thought.

 

Of course, it deals 350% at 4m and 750% at 2m. The tooltip is correct on this one (it specifically states bonus damage). Its still poorly worded though. 

[Wavebend]

Of course, it deals 350% at 4m and 750% at 2m. The tooltip is correct on this one.

 

Yeah I need to RTFM more often, I didn't know the damage formula...

[Pork]

Yeah I need to RTFM more often, I didn't know the damage formula...

 

Its just poor wording. It would make a lot more sense if it just said x% @ x range rather than 'bonus damage'. But hey, im not a game developer

[Wavebend]

Its just poor wording. It would make a lot more sense if it just said x% @ x range rather than 'bonus damage'. But hey, im not a game developer

 

It's even weirder when you look at Lightning Bolt (ele/keeper) that uses the same wording (Damage Bonus: 200% for every creature within 4m) when it doesn't act the same way as Killer Set/Power Chord and only adds a 200% weapon damage for every creature instead..

 

You can't trust the tooltip!

[Drasca]

Of course, it deals 350% at 4m and 750% at 2m. The tooltip is correct on this one.

 

Combat formula understand failure here, and units recognition failure. i.e. 1000 meters is not the same as 1000 yards, nor is 100 grams of bacon the same as 100 lbs of ham nug loaf. You don't eat the ham its nug loaf.

 

The tooltip description for weapon damage is the ability_multiplier

The description bonus damage is damage_multiplier

 

4m is actually +200% damage bonus, which is not the same as weapon damage, and ultimately a 3x multiplier if there's no attack_bonus (there always is though)

 

It is closer to 450% weapon damage, but not quite.

 

Reference:

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

[Drasca]

Yeah I need to RTFM more often, I didn't know the damage formula...

 

Except the numbers Pork quoted are incorrect. The actual numbers for PC damage are:

 

final_damage = (base_damage * rand(0.95 to 1.05) - armor * (1 - armor_penetration) no armor involved in magical damage)
    * (ability_multiplier = 1.5 due to 150% weapon damage, possibly passives / gear as well)
    * (1 + critical_damage_bonus (0 non crit to1.4 base to 2.41, depending on gear)  + flanking_bonus = 0 to 1.25 )
    * (1 + attack_bonus = combined attack power + damage_multiplier = [combined from passives? / gear? plus + bonus from ability] = afaik does not exist in MP)
    * (1 - magic_resistance)

 

[Kenny Bania]

Seems like a good build. I'll be sure to try it out if I decide to play the game again.

[Pork]

It is closer to 450% weapon damage

 

Reference:

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

 

Ah okay. 

 

Simply put, its 150% * 3.0 (200%) = 450% for 4m and 150% * 5.0 (400%) = 750%. 

 

Confusing tooltip then. Especially since how damage bonuses * number of enemies in area (weapons + lightning bolt) are additive, as wavebend said. I figured PC would work similarly, apparently not. 

 

Damn I hate having to ignore tooltips though to work out damage calculation and instead having to rely on users to do it themselves. Really defeats the point of them existing in the first place. 

[DragonRacer]

 

@Dragonracer, could you be a dear and add this to the resource library? Im sure it would be appreciated. 

 

 

Done and done.

[Pork]

Done and done.

 

[Drasca]

Confusing tooltip then.

 

From Bioware? You don't say.

 

I actually have problems trying to figure out whether individual passives and gear pieces are damage_multipliers or ability_multipliers (because it is work)

Edited by Drasca, 15 June 2015 - 05:52 PM.

[Gya]

Damn I hate having to ignore tooltips though to work out damage calculation and instead having to rely on users to do it themselves. Really defeats the point of them existing in the first place.

Working as intended.

Biower Tooltip Commander is the final boss of multiplayer, but no-one can unlock him because the tooltips explaining how to do so, just say '+30% focus'.

[capn233]

I always use both.

 

I thought that when you invested in one of them, the other magically disappears from the power tree.  *shrug*

[yarpenthemad21]

This video hurts my ears, my mind and soul. If someone link it to "resource" library I will find him and attack him with math song.

Every word said in this videos is just plain wrong. I will ignore basic fact that build with only video but without building tree, leveling guide and ability orders isn't that much useful. Just please take a look at wavebend thread, this is the way proper build guide should look.

For the god sake how it could be even build guide when I don't know what to take. I know that I need cool beats, it's upgrade and what... LKM? What to do with other skills? Put in random places?
So much information...

Several hours wasted on testing ability which I don't like, don't care and nothing changed. I have serious question for this video author.
Do you think that your audience is a group of morons? I'm looking forward for the answer.

[Texasmotiv]

Penguin's videos will usually have the unlock order and full skill tree in the description. It might help to copy that here and add it to the OP.

 

 

Edit: Looking at the video on youtube, there is just a screenshot of the offensive tree in the description. It seems like he put a lot less work into this build than he usually does.

[yarpenthemad21]

Done and done.

Why?

Author puts some damage numbers - they are ALL wrong, not one, just ALL.
Description does not have skill tree for second tree, just one, so lack of info in building
I'm pretty sure it's just a Wavebend build with maybe 1 passive changed. Nothing new, nothing worth. Waste of time and hard disk space.

[Pork]

Penguin's videos will usually have the unlock order and full skill tree in the description. It might help to copy that here and add it to the OP.

 

 

Edit: Looking at the video on youtube, there is just a screenshot of the offensive tree in the description. It seems like he put a lot less work into this build than he usually does.

 

There is screenshots of both trees that I can see... but no unlock order. Might have something to do with DAskills being bugged for Zither when you copy paste the tree link. 

 

As for unlock order, there wasn't one in the previous Zither video either. You'll have to ask him yourself as to why though, im not entirely sure myself.

[BioWareMod01]

Hey everyone. Let's keep it civil in here. Thank you.