41 replies to this topic

[apocalypse_owl]

Video link here: 

 

 

Two builds specifically optimised for Nightmare and Perilous/Threatening/Routine. 

 

Hopefully everyone of all playing abilities will find this of use

[BreakJohn]

Man I can't wait to try this class. Build seems solid don't know if I can comment yet since I haven't experienced the class first hand, but to my understanding isn't Pala's flashing steel significantly weaker than Isabelas? Is it only for guard generating purposes?

[Pork]

Man I can't wait to try this class. Build seems solid don't know if I can comment yet since I haven't experienced the class first hand, but to my understanding isn't Pala's flashing steel significantly weaker than Isabelas? Is it only for guard generating purposes?

 

Generates 6% guard per hit when its upgraded, I imagine this is why it was taken

[Kyo Yagami]

I just replace Flashing Steel with Throwing Blades.

Throwing Blades recharges Spining Blades, Spining recharges Throwing and them Hidden blades are ready. I just cicle them.

 

Give a try. Its very funny. ^^ 

[ParthianShotX]

 

he says he's written them up -- where might I find the write-up?

[MDK1281]

I just replace Flashing Steel with Throwing Blades.

Throwing Blades recharges Spining Blades, Spining recharges Throwing and them Hidden blades are ready. I just cicle them.

 

Give a try. Its very funny. ^^ 

 

Yes, very much this.

 

This class is great fun to play with.

[GreySpectre]

he says he's written them up -- where might I find the write-up?

Spoiler

PERILOUS BUILD

Level 2: Unforgiving Chain
Level 3: Spinning Blades
Level 4: Spinning Blades Upgrade
Level 5: Flashing Steel
Level 6: Flashing Steel Upgrade
Level 7: Deep Reserves
Level 8: Fervor
Level 9: Looked Like It Hurt
Level 10: Flow Of Battle
Level 11: Bulwark
Level 12: Furious Blows
Level 13: Hidden Blades
Level 14: Hidden Blades Upgraded
Level 15: Disable
Level 16: Shield Breaker
Level 17: Bear Mauls The Wolves
Level 18: Charging Bull Upgraded
Level 19: Turn The Bolt
Level 20: Salty Sea Dog

NIGHTMARE BUILD

Level 2: Unforgiving Chain
Level 3: Deep Reserves
Level 4: Fervor
Level 5: Looked Like It Hurt
Level 6: Flow Of Battle
Level 7: Bulwark
Level 8: Furious Blows
Level 9: Hidden Blades
Level 10: Hidden Blades Upgraded
Level 11: Deathblow
Level 12: Disable
Level 13: Shield Breaker
Level 14: Bear Mauls The Wolves
Level 15: Salty Sea Dog
Level 16: War Horn
Level 17: War Horn Upgraded
Level 18: Grisley Mutilation
Level 19: Terrifying Fury
Level 20: Unyielding

[Pork]

he says he's written them up -- where might I find the write-up?

In the description. There isnt a da-skills link though which is strange, not sure if the silent sister has been added to the site yet.

[Silversmurf]

Warhorn slows down your killing on Nightmare.

 

Just take the 2 panic passives.

[apocalypse_owl]

Warhorn slows down your killing on Nightmare.

Just take the 2 panic passives.

Did you even watch the video? It explained exactly why war horn was taken. War horn is there to manage shield bearers. War horn is also really useful on NM in general.

[Courtnehh]

Did you even watch the video? It explained exactly why war horn was taken. War horn is there to manage shield bearers. War horn is also really useful on NM in general.

God, shield guys are a real problem for this class. So annoying.

[Silversmurf]

Yes, I watched the video.

 

I know who you are. You are very experienced.

 

Your build is great.

 

Warhorn just slows me down.  We went 4 sister's on NM, noone took warhorn.  We cleared in 19min with no deaths. In fact, it honestly felt like Silent Sister has broken NM.  Panic proc's so often with the passives and nothing stays alive long enough.

 

Just my opinion.

[Pork]

Yes, I watched the video.

I know who you are. You are very experienced.

Your build is great.

Warhorn just slows me down. We went 4 sister's on NM, noone took warhorn. We cleared in 19min with no deaths. In fact, it honestly felt like Silent Sister has broken NM. Panic proc's so often with the passives and nothing stays alive long enough.

Just my opinion.

I think owl is just a friend of the OP, i see his username a lot in his videos.

To further the point though, when you are surrounded by 5 shields and nobody to flank them, you are screwed. War horn removes that issue.

[Proto]

Warhorn slows down your killing on Nightmare.

 

Just take the 2 panic passives.

 

Agree completely. Mute point either way because even in the OP's build description you don't get Warhorn till level 16. Same time you would be getting it if aiming for Terrifying Fury. Why deathblow? Surely having Throwing Blades/Hidden Blades/Spinning Blades for the extra attacks(flow of battle + extra guard generation) would be better in almost all circumstances.

 

Not so hot of a build, IMO. Having both Deathblow/Warhorn seems like wasted potential.

 

I will point out that shield dudes are a royal pain in the A** at level 1. I had about 9 of them chasing me around solo at Level 1 in FC. Took ages to finally whittle them down.

 

Anyway, I prefer spinning blades: This is just a guideline for progression, personal preference on when to take what.

 

Level 2: Unforgiving Chain
Level 3: Deep Reserves
Level 4: Fervor
Level 5: Looked Like It Hurt
Level 6: Flow Of Battle
Level 7: Spinning Blades
Level 8: Neverending Spin
Level 9: Furious Blows
Level 10: Hidden Blades
Level 11: Hidden Blades Upgraded

Level 12: Bulwark

Level 13: Shield Breaker

Level 14: Bear Mauls The Wolves
Level 15: Salty Sea Dog

Level 16: Warhorn

Level 17: Terrifying Fury

Level 18: To The Death

Level 19: Untouchable Defense

 

Edit: If you're like me and are just madly in love with Combat Roll, you could consider taking it instead of To The Death and Untouchable Defense. Since its easily accessible you can take it as early as desired. Personally I replaced Charging Bull. Replacing Spinning Blades would save points if you want certain passives for survival.

[Drasca]

Warhorn just slows me down.  We went 4 sister's on NM, noone took warhorn.  We cleared in 19min with no deaths. In fact, it honestly felt like Silent Sister has broken NM.  Panic proc's so often with the passives and nothing stays alive long enough.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Not just your opinion, is too that WH is wasted on a SS. The fact is just as you say, WH slows you down and is an interruption. You do need panic off the passives, but WH as an active ability is not good on a SS due to interrupting the flow of battle. On a high cunning / critical chance account / gear setup, only Terrifying Fury is needed, and not Grisly Mutilation.

 

The build is not good. I've done it, and moved past it tossing it in the pile of 'no good' just as the other Avvar freeze self combo build wasn't good enough (but PF insisted was-- and later used BJ's balanced build instead).

 

Also no, WH alone is not enough to deal with Shieldbearers, especially if you're the last alive as three shieldbearers will keep you constantly knocked down. You absolutely need either combat roll or parry, as WH's so slow it'll be interrupted by the Shieldbearer charge / knockdown effect.

 

Man I can't wait to try this class. Build seems solid don't know if I can comment yet since I haven't experienced the class first hand, but to my understanding isn't Pala's flashing steel significantly weaker than Isabelas? Is it only for guard generating purposes?

 

You're absolutely right that Pala's flashing steel is weaker. It is not necessary at all to have, and I consider it a wasted ability.

 

 

God, shield guys are a real problem for this class. So annoying.

 

They really really are. It is to the point where if I'm expecting to solo NM (usually because the pugs are dead or not joining) I am tempted to put on the Parry ring, because that's the only consistent defense against them. Still feeling out whether I prefer AP or CBD or Spinning Blade ring in general though.

[Proto]

You absolutely need either combat roll or parry.

 

I used combat roll my first 1-20. Great as always. Didn't use it my second run through. (build above)

 

Respecced at level 19 and replaced Charging Bull with Combat Roll. CC removal is priceless but so is the fun to be had with Charging Bull. Such great skill trees you have to skip out on great passives!

[Pork]

Not just your opinion, is too that WH is wasted on a SS. The fact is just as you say, WH slows you down and is an interruption. You do need panic off the passives, but WH as an active ability is not good on a SS due to interrupting the flow of battle. On a high cunning / critical chance account / gear setup, only Terrifying Fury is needed, and not Grisly Mutilation.

 

The build is not good. I've done it, and moved past it tossing it in the pile of 'no good' just as the other Avvar freeze self combo build wasn't good enough (but PF insisted was-- and later used BJ's balanced build instead).

 

Also no, WH alone is not enough to deal with Shieldbearers, especially if you're the last alive as three shieldbearers will keep you constantly knocked down. You absolutely need either combat roll or parry, as WH's so slow it'll be interrupted by the Shieldbearer charge / knockdown effect.

 

 

You're absolutely right that Pala's flashing steel is weaker. It is not necessary at all to have, and I consider it a wasted ability.

 

 

 

They really really are. It is to the point where if I'm expecting to solo NM (usually because the pugs are dead or not joining) I am tempted to put on the Parry ring, because that's the only consistent defense against them. Still feeling out whether I prefer AP or CBD or Spinning Blade ring in general though.

 

Drasca once again proving his reliance on promotions to do well. Can't predict shield attack patterns in order to safely use war horn and thinks Parry is worth anything on nightmare. 

 

Also showcasing his reading comprehension since flashing steel isn't even listed in the NM build for that exact reason.

[Proto]

Also showcasing his reading comprehension since flashing steel isn't even listed in the NM build for that exact reason.

 

To be fair, flashing steel is a poor choice even for lower difficulties.

[Pork]

To be fair, flashing steel is a poor choice even for lower difficulties.

 

So what would you replace it with? It does enough damage to kill low tier enemies easily and generates guard very well. Keep in mind that its aimed for perilous and below players, i.e, players that are not skilled or promoted enough to enter nightmare.

 

I played both builds yesterday, and with FS/HB/CB/SB i can literally play with my knees and be successful even on nightmare, and I am considered to have low stats (less than 50 on all).

[apocalypse_owl]

To be fair, flashing steel is a poor choice even for lower difficulties.

 

And what would be better? The only skill i can think of that you could make a case for is throwing blades, which doesn't really benefit anyone except players with high cunning to take advantage of Flow of Battle.

[Proto]

And what would be better? The only skill i can think of that you could make a case for is throwing blades, which doesn't really benefit anyone except players with high cunning to take advantage of Flow of Battle.

 

Yes, throwing blades forsure. Don't need to invest any points, hits 5x(don't need high cunning to make use of flow of battle, still useful and with armor upgrades/item upgrades everyone should have 20+% crit even if new to the game), sunders and can be used at range.

 

Combat Roll...CC removal and allows for re-positioning followed by charge. 

 

To the Death - Commander/Dragon wreckage and better guard generation.

 

Warhorn - Personally not a fan but at least gives you some CC/Support XP

 

Pretty much anything is better than flashing steel. 

 

Actually, now that I've looked at the Perilous build. Its less appealing than the NM. 

 

PERILOUS BUILD

Level 2: Unforgiving Chain
Level 3: Spinning Blades
Level 4: Spinning Blades Upgrade
Level 5: Flashing Steel
Level 6: Flashing Steel Upgrade
Level 7: Deep Reserves
Level 8: Fervor
Level 9: Looked Like It Hurt
Level 10: Flow Of Battle
Level 11: Bulwark
Level 12: Furious Blows
Level 13: Hidden Blades
Level 14: Hidden Blades Upgraded
Level 15: Disable
Level 16: Shield Breaker
Level 17: Bear Mauls The Wolves
Level 18: Charging Bull Upgraded
Level 19: Turn The Bolt
Level 20: Salty Sea Dog

 

Like mentioned above Flashing Steel is just a poor choice of points...those could be used on extremely helpful passives which are even more helpful for players with low promotions. 

 

Also, charging bull upgrade is useless...again poor use of ability point that could be used on other passives.

[Wavebend]

And what would be better? The only skill i can think of that you could make a case for is throwing blades, which doesn't really benefit anyone except players with high cunning to take advantage of Flow of Battle.

 

Each projectile of Throwing Blades applies a 20% sunder, and it stacks. 5 projectiles on one enemy = 100% armor reduction (unless sunder is capped, haven't tested that yet)

[apocalypse_owl]

Yes, throwing blades forsure. Don't need to invest any points, hits 5x(don't need high cunning to make use of flow of battle, still useful and with armor upgrades/item upgrades everyone should have 20+% crit even if new to the game), sunders and can be used at range.

 

Combat Roll...CC removal and allows for re-positioning followed by charge. 

 

Pretty much anything is better than flashing steel. 

 

Absolutely no reason to use combat roll on Perilous. Any and all knockdowns can be evaded manually.

 

Throwing blades again, is a potential candidate (has 4 hits by the way, not 5), but Flashing Steel generates more guard, therefore has more survivability, which is far more useful to low level players than a chance for 1 second chopped off cooldowns. Keep in mind that you need at least 95 cunning to have Throwing Blades reliably take off more than 2 seconds of cooldowns, which is huge, even when you factor in gear and weapon choices.

 

Each projectile of Throwing Blades applies a 20% sunder, and it stacks. 5 projectiles on one enemy = 100% armor reduction (unless sunder is capped, haven't tested that yet)

 

Which is useful on nightmare. But we are talking about perilous, where health and armor values are so low that armor can generally be ignored. As I said to Pronto, it only hits 4 times, giving an 80% armor reduction at most, which is actually the hard cap for armor reduction. So even if throwing blades hit 5 times, which it doesn't, the armor reduction would be capped at 80%.

[apocalypse_owl]

Yes, throwing blades forsure. Don't need to invest any points, hits 5x(don't need high cunning to make use of flow of battle, still useful and with armor upgrades/item upgrades everyone should have 20+% crit even if new to the game), sunders and can be used at range.

 

Combat Roll...CC removal and allows for re-positioning followed by charge. 

 

To the Death - Commander/Dragon wreckage and better guard generation.

 

Warhorn - Personally not a fan but at least gives you some CC/Support XP

 

Like mentioned above Flashing Steel is just a poor choice of points...those could be used on extremely helpful passives which are even more helpful for players with low promotions. 

 

Also, charging bull upgrade is useless...again poor use of ability point that could be used on other passives.

 

Nice edit. 

 

To the death forces you to target one enemy for an extended period of time. Useless on pala vs anything but the faction commander/dragon.

 

Warhorn serves little purpose on perilous aswell. If I wanted to generate support xp then id play a mage. 

 

Charging bull was addressed in the video, prolonged charging = big stamina drain. Stamina passives and gear mitigates this, as stated aswell, though Looked Like It Hurt does not fully mitigate stamina drain since low level players have low crit chance. Having a second skill for free means you can charge till you run dry and you will be able to use another ability immediately afterwards. 

 

For high level players like yourself, its functionally useless, as you said. 

 

As for better passives, what is there? Gristly mutilation maybe, untouchable defense or turn the bolt. those are the only three which you can make a case for, two of which require two points to get.

[Proto]

Absolutely no reason to use combat roll on Perilous. Any and all knockdowns can be evaded manually.

 

Knockdowns? You can't avoid everything. What about stuns, projectiles, Mage mines / attacks, Assassin back stabs? Combat Roll is great for every difficulty. There is no doubt in my mind it is more useful for survival than the extra guard from Flashing Steel.

 

For players with poor stats, preventing getting instagibbed is even more important. If Penguin's perilous build is meant for those who need a more forgiving play-style, Combat Roll would be perfect.

 

Throwing blades again, is a potential candidate (has 4 hits by the way, not 5), but Flashing Steel generates more guard, therefore has more survivability, which is far more useful to low level players than a chance for 1 second chopped off cooldowns. Keep in mind that you need at least 95 cunning to have Throwing Blades reliably take off more than 2 seconds of cooldowns, which is huge, even when you factor in gear and weapon choices.

 

It is 5 hits, even without the upgrade. Wavebend has confirmed this through testing.

 

The guard generation from flashing steel is only "OK" and requires 2 ability points. Untouchable Defense would be a much better investment if guard generation is the goal. 

 

 

Which is useful on nightmare. But we are talking about perilous, where health and armor values are so low that armor can generally be ignored. As I said to Pronto, it only hits 4 times, giving an 80% armor reduction at most, which is actually the hard cap for armor reduction. So even if throwing blades hit 5 times, which it doesn't, the armor reduction would be capped at 80%.

 

 If you say so...