100 replies to this topic

[corlist]

Many thanks to tyhw for his participation, calculation and time spent in the tests.
For a list of all combos, see here.
For a quick overview of combo damages, see the table below
Spreadsheet of common combo damages

Summary
Combo damage bonuses (e.g. Detonate) are multiplicative bonuses.
Combo damage is scaled only to difficulty and not to total health/armour.
A Tech Burst which also hits a swarmer will drop to 100 damage (needs more testing).
All ammo consumables count as level 1 powers for the sake of calculating combo damage.
Combo damage is just like any other source of damage; any damage taken debuff will result in the target taking more damage.
All Cryo Explosions involving Snap Freeze will do 2x damage. (bug)
N7 Paladin's Fire and Cryo shield melee count as level 6 powers.

Important note regarding debuffs
Debuffs (warp, biotic sphere, proximity mine) do not increase damage of combos specifically. Instead, targets that are debuffed take extra damage from combos.

Debuffs (when applicable) stack additively with each other.

Ammo consumables
Despite the fact that a incendiary 1 can do as much fire explosion damage as incendiary 4, higher level ammo have a much higher chance of setting up said combos. Note that in Singleplayer, the level of the ammo power is used to determine the level instead of a fixed value of 1.

Legend
From here on, all combos will be known as such
Biotic Explosion: BE
Tech Burst: TB
Fire Explosion: FE
Cryo Explosion: CE

Sabotage (Evolution 6 "Vulnerability") increases TB damage (FE/CE not tested).

Snap Freeze (Evolution 6 "Tech Combo" +100% tech combo damage)
- For the AIU: Works for TB/FE/CE
- For the paladin: Works for CE only

Electric Slash (Evolution 3 "Detonate" +100% force/damage on tech combos)
- No effect on any tech power combo.

Electrical Hammer (Evoution 5 "Radius & Combo +65% tech combo damage)
- Works for TB/FE/CE

Despite its wording, Warp's detonate evolution will not increase non-biotic combo damage.

============================== 
0: The formula
==============================
Combo damage = 
(Minimum damage + (Maximum damage - Minimum damage) / 10 * (combo level - 2)) * difficulty scaling * combo damage bonus * combo damage bonus

You could alternatively use this formula because the damage range for combos are all the same
100 * (1 + (combo level - 2) * 0.15) * difficulty scaling * combo damage bonus * combo damage bonus

Effective damage a target takes depends on its current defences and if any debuffs are applied. Damage done to each target is applied based on the following formula:
Let x = combo damage
x * (1 + sum debuffs) * defence damage multiplier

==============================
1: Minimum and Maximum base combo damage
==============================
BE: 100 - 250
TB: 100 - 250
FE: 100 - 250
CE: 100 - 250

*Note: No DoT was observed with Fire Explosions. The health bar is blinking, but 0 damage is delivered.
This is probably a bug.

==============================
2: Calculation of combo level (modified base damage)
==============================
Just add the levels of both powers used in the combo. If an ammo power is used, its level is 1.

==============================
3: Difficulty level damage multipliers
==============================
Bronze: 1.5
Silver: 2.25
Gold: 3.375
Platinum: 4.3875

*This combo damage scaling fits with enemy health scaling across difficulties consistently for many enemies.

Singleplayer*
Narrative: 0.583333
Casual: 0.83333
Normal: 1.5
Hardcore: 2.25
Insanity: 3.375

*Note: These are the maximum multipliers. Shepard's level (and possibly the current campaign progress) affects the health of enemies and thereafter affects the combo multiplier. The minimum of each multiplier is 66.67% of the max.

============================== 
4: Combo damage against defences (source - Eric Fagnan)
============================== 
Biotic Explosion (Armor=200%, Barrier=200%, Shields=100%)
Cryo Explosion (Armor=100%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%)
Fire Explosion (Armor=200%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%)
Tech Burst (Armor=100%, Barrier=100%, Shields=200%)

*All of them do 100% damage to health.

==============================
5: Numbers galore
============================== 
------------------------------
Gold Assault Trooper
------------------------------
Sabotage 6 + ED 1 (TB)

Bystander Assault Trooper
1687.5 - 1096.875 = 590.625

Calculation
100 (base) * 1.75 (level 7 combo) * 3.375 (gold scaling) = 590.625

---
ED 1 + Warp 1 (TB)

Bystander Assault Trooper
1687.5 - 1350 = 337.5

Calculation
100 (base) * 1 (level 2 combo) * 3.375 (gold scaling) = 337.5

---
Stasis 1 + Warp 1

Target Assault Trooper
1687.5 - 1075 = 612.5

Calculation
Stasis + Warp = 25 + 250
100 (base) * 1 (level 2 combo) * 3.375 (gold scaling) = 337.5
275 + 337.5 = 612.5

------------------------------
Gold Cannibal
------------------------------

Overload 1 + Incinerate 1 (TB)
2025 - 1214.5 = 810.5

Overload 1
220 * 0.5 = 110

Incinerate 1 (+10% power passives)
330 * 1.1 = 363

810.5 - 110 - 363 = 337.5
- No scaling by health of target

------------------------------
Bronze Cannibal
------------------------------

Warp 1 + Throw 1 (BE)
Bystander Cannibal
900 - 750 = 150

Calculation
100 (base) * 1 (level 2 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 150

---
Incinerate 1 + Warp 5 (FE)
+50% Warp detonate

Bystander Cannibal (duh)
900 - 540 = 360 (240 now)

Calculation
150 (base) * 1.6 (level 6 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 360
(100 [min] + (250 [max] - 100 [min]) / 10 * (6 [combo level] - 2))* 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 240

- Warp detonate does not increase FE damage.

---
Cryo Blast 1 + Warp 5 (CE)
Bystander Cannibal
900 - 780 = 120 (240 now)

Calculation
50 (base) * 1.6 (level 6 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 120
(75 [min] + (200 [max] - 75 [min]) / 10 * (6 [combo level] - 2)) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 187.5
100 * 1.6 * 1.5 = 240
- Warp detonate does not increase CE damage.

---
Overload 1 + Warp 5 (TB)
Bystander Cannibal
900 - 660 = 240

Calculation
100 (base) * 1.6 (level 6 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 240
- Warp detonate does not increase TB damage.

---
Stasis 4 + Warp 4 (BE)
+50% detonate

Bystander Cannibal
900 - 472.5 = 427.5

Calculation
100 (base) * 1.9 (level 8 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) * 1.5 (detonate) = 427.5

---
Warp 4 + Throw 5 (BE)
+50% detonate (Warp)
+50% detoante (Throw)

Bystander Cannibal
900 - 208.125 = 691.875

Calculation
100 (base) * 2.05 (level 9 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) * 1.5 (detonate) * 1.5 (detonate) = 691.875
- Combo damage bonuses are multiplicative

--
Sabotage 6 + Incinerate 1

Target Cannibal (sabotage backfire negated)
900 - 56.25 = 843.75

Calculation
Incinerate
300 * 1.5 = 450
843.75 - 450 = 393.75

100 (base) * 1.75  (level 7 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling)  * 1.5 (sabotage) = 393.75
---
Disruptor I + Warp 6 (TB)

Bystander cannibal
900 - 637.5 = 262.5

Calculation
100 * 1.75 (Level 7 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 262.5
- Disruptor I counts as a level 1 power.

---
Cryo II + Warp 6 (CE)

Bystander cannibal
900 - 768.75 = 131.25 (262.5 now)

Calculation
50 * 1.75 (Level 7 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 131.25
(75 [min] + (200 [max] - 75 [min]) / 10 * (10 - (7 [combo level] - 2)) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 206.25
100 * 1.75 * 1.5 = 262.5

- Cryo II counts as a level 1 power.

---
Incendiary III + Warp 6 (FE)

Bystander cannibal
900 - 506.25 = 393.75 (262.5 now)

Calculation
150 * 1.75 (Level 7 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 393.75
(100 [min] + (250 [max] - 100 [min]) / 10 * (7 [combo level] - 2)) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 262.5

- Incendiary III counts as a level 1 power.

---
Disruptor IV + Warp 6 (TB)

Bystander cannibal
900 - 637.5 = 262.5

Calculation
100 * 1.75 (Level 7 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) = 262.5
- All ammo consumables counts as level 1 powers.

------------------------------
Silver Cannibal
------------------------------
Warp 1 + Throw 1 (BE)

Bystander Cannibal
1350 - 1125 = 225

Calculation
100 (base) * 1 (level 2 combo) * 2.25 (sliver scaling) = 225

---
ED 1 + Warp 1 (TB)
ED + 10% passives

Target Cannibal
1350 - 754 = 596

Calculation
Warp + ED
250 + 220 * (1 + 0.1) * 0.5 = 371
596 - 371 = 225

100 (base) * 1 (level 2 combo) * 2.25 (silver scaling) = 225
- TB does the same damage vs health in silver compared to BE.

------------------------------
Platinum Geth Trooper
------------------------------
Stasis 1 + Reave 3 (BE)

Target Geth Trooper
2413.125 - 1167.75 = 1245.375

Calculation
Stasis + Reave
25 + 100 * 6.5 = 675
1245.375 - 675 = 570.375

Calculation
100 (base) * 1.3 (level 4 combo) * 4.3875 (platinum scaling) = 570.375

------------------------------
Bronze Ravager
------------------------------
Warp 5 + Throw 5 (BE)
+50% detonate (Warp)
+50% detonate (Throw)
+15% expose

Target Ravager
3600 - 1327.6248779296875 = 2272.3751220703125

Calculation
Warp 300 damage
Throw 85 impact damage (vs armour)

Warp effective damage
((300 * 0.75) + (300 * 0.25 * 1.15)) * 1.5 = 466.875

Throw effective damage
85 * 1.15 = 97.75

2272.3751220703125 - 466.875 - 97.75 = 1707.7501220703125

Calculation
100 (base) * 2.2 (level 10 combo) * 1.5 (bronze scaling) * 1.5 (detonate) * 1.5 (detonate) * 2 (armour multiplier) * 1.15 (expose) = 1707.75

==============================

Edited by corlist, 02 June 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[peddroelm]

after all this time ... Good job ...

[MikeSlackenerny]

Great to see the finding on "Expose".

[Relix28]

Awesome job you guys. Thank you for all the efforts.

I added a link to this thread in my power combo thread (see sig).


Keep up the good work.

[Heggy]

Did you do any tests with disruptor ammo?

Edited by Heggy, 09 September 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[regack]

 anyone want to test Dark Channel and Annihilation Field?   

[Deathshroud09]

Could you maybe check the 100% tech damage on snap freeze and electric slash?

[corlist]

Heggy wrote...

Did you do any tests with disruptor ammo?

No. Will probably do them tomorrow.

regack wrote...

 anyone want to test Dark Channel and Annihilation Field?   [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

 

That will most probably do the same damage any any other BE that has no detonate bonuses.

Deathshroud09 wrote...

Could you maybe check the 100% tech damage on snap freeze and electric slash?

 


I will probably do this before the ammo consumables. I did make an older thread without numeric testing and ES tech combo was shown to not work.

[peddroelm]

regack wrote...

 anyone want to test Dark Channel and Annihilation Field?   

 

397.5   // got Bored - Throw
2531.25   337.5 * 2.5 * 1.5 * 2 = 2531.25   // 6 6 +50% bonus BE vs armor OK

From another thread ... Dark Channel & Annihilation field active on target ...One of them got detonated by throw ...

Edited by peddroelmz, 09 September 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[synapsefire]

Hmm, fire explosions does double damage to armor.. nice find. I'm underwhelmed by it in general. Radius is ****** poor and yesterday it took out half of a Husks health for me, hurray.

Thanks for testing/sharing. Good job.

[corlist]

peddroelmz wrote...

regack wrote...

 anyone want to test Dark Channel and Annihilation Field?   

 

397.5   // got Bored - Throw2531.25   337.5 * 2.5 * 1.5 * 2 = 2531.25   // 6 6 +50% bonus BE vs armor OK

From another thread ... Dark Channel & Annihilation field active on target ...One of them got detonated by throw ...

Did something similar too.

Warp + Incinerate + Throw = only FE

[Deathshroud09]

corlist wrote...

Heggy wrote...

Did you do any tests with disruptor ammo?

No. Will probably do them tomorrow.

regack wrote...

 anyone want to test Dark Channel and Annihilation Field?   [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

 

That will most probably do the same damage any any other BE that has no detonate bonuses.

Deathshroud09 wrote...

Could you maybe check the 100% tech damage on snap freeze and electric slash?

 


I will probably do this before the ammo consumables. I did make an older thread without numeric testing and ES tech combo was shown to not work.

I proposed an idea in an earlier thread about what would happen if you used sabotage to prime a tech burst, and detonated with electric slash or snap freeze. If the 100% evolutions worked i would like to see the interaction between the two. Potentially one of the most powerful combo's in the game? They told me that the +50% tech damage did not effect tech bursts, now that you have proven this to be incorrect i'd love to see the interaction between those three powers.

Edited by Deathshroud09, 09 September 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[N7 Whiskey]

Heggy wrote...

Did you do any tests with disruptor ammo?

This.  I always assumed that Level 1 ammo counted as a level 1 power towards the combo, level 2 ammo as level 2 power and level 3 ammo as level power.  Would be nice to know for sure if Level 3 Incendiary + Shockwave 6 = Level 9 Fire Explosion.

Also would be awesome if Warp Ammo could prime BEs.

[Deathshroud09]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Heggy wrote...

Did you do any tests with disruptor ammo?

This.  I always assumed that Level 1 ammo counted as a level 1 power towards the combo, level 2 ammo as level 2 power and level 3 ammo as level power.  Would be nice to know for sure if Level 3 Incendiary + Shockwave 6 = Level 9 Fire Explosion.

Also would be awesome if Warp Ammo could prime BEs.

Scorpion + Warp Ammo priming BEs + Throw = ?

Edited by Deathshroud09, 09 September 2012 - 03:00 PM.

[N7 Whiskey]

Deathshroud09 wrote...

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Heggy wrote...

Did you do any tests with disruptor ammo?

This.  I always assumed that Level 1 ammo counted as a level 1 power towards the combo, level 2 ammo as level 2 power and level 3 ammo as level power.  Would be nice to know for sure if Level 3 Incendiary + Shockwave 6 = Level 9 Fire Explosion.

Also would be awesome if Warp Ammo could prime BEs.

Scorpion + Warp Ammo priming BEs + Throw = ?

Absolutely.  If the Warp Ammo III only counted 3 ranks and Throw 6 ranks for 9 out of possible 12, it wouldn't be that powerful of a BE.  Would give non-Human Sentinels ability to prime & detonate their own BEs, Vanguards too.  Adepts wouldn't really use it since they could set off significantly more powerful BEs with their powers.

Right now, I can use Incendiary Ammo III with a Vanguard and throw out a constant stream of Fire Explosions which is more powerful than BE, so why not be able to use Warp Ammo to do less powerful explosions?

[corlist]

Bump for ammo tests, all of them count as level 1 powers.
Will test electric slash/snap freeze tech damage combo soon.

[Stahlhammer]

So max BE damage on gold is Warp=>Trow dealing total of 4366.40625 damage to armor. Which is less than HSol can do in 0.2 sec with Claymore and AR

PS To be more specific, it's twice less :S 

Edited by Stahlhammer, 10 September 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[peddroelm]

Stahlhammer wrote...

So max BE damage on gold is Warp=>Trow dealing total of 4366.40625 damage to armor. Which is less than HSol can do in 0.2 sec with Claymore and AR

PS To be more specific, it's twice less :S 

yes but it is aoe damage ...Also throw & warp also do some damage to the target on their own in addition to the BE damage... 

Edited by peddroelmz, 10 September 2012 - 08:56 AM.

[Dream-Maker]

So the level of powers used in the combo does also matter for tech combos ?

If it is the case it would change a lot of things, I thought it was common knowledge that only BEs get bonus damage from the level of the powers used in the combos.

[b1okey]

nice job,thanks for sharing.

[Stahlhammer]

peddroelmz wrote...

Stahlhammer wrote...

So max BE damage on gold is Warp=>Trow dealing total of 4366.40625 damage to armor. Which is less than HSol can do in 0.2 sec with Claymore and AR

PS To be more specific, it's twice less :S 

yes but it is aoe damage ...Also throw & warp also do some damage to the target on their own in addition to the BE damage... 

I respecced HSent to max the cooldown on everything for more BE, and what i'm interested in now is DPS it can put out compared to reload cancelling/AR abusing HSol. I know there are too many variables here but anyway... 

[corlist]

Stahlhammer wrote...

I respecced HSent to max the cooldown on everything for more BE, and what i'm interested in now is DPS it can put out compared to reload cancelling/AR abusing HSol. I know there are too many variables here but anyway... 

Difficulty? I'd always enjoy a nice math exercise.

*edit* You might as well throw out your desired weapon/build/amps/gear, for both of these classes.

Edited by corlist, 10 September 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[xabkish]

Great job!

The fact that Expose affect BEs makes me wonder if Proxy mine debuff affects power combos as well. Do you plan on testing it?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

This may be the best thread ever.  I've been trying to get this information for some time.  Finally!  Thank you!

[corlist]

xabkish wrote...

Great job!

The fact that Expose affect BEs makes me wonder if Proxy mine debuff affects power combos as well. Do you plan on testing it?

Ah. Good point. I hope no one else comes and mentions that we should test it with tactical scan, justicar bubble, cryo blast, snap freeze, annihilation field and stasis vulnerability.