42 replies to this topic

[Shampoohorn]

Who has the highest melee damage among the turians?  Here's a rundown of each kit's maximum solo melee damage.  That means I've used the narida tool to equip the SG Omniblade (x150%), Strength Enhancer (+30%) and Hydraulic Joints (+20%) and also to include the Martial Artist Bonus (75%).  On top of that, I'd added the multipliers from whatever debuff that kit has access to.  Final total is for H/S/B only since armor only takes 75% damage from turian heavy melee.  The old kits have 675 base damage and +105% (25+20+30+30) from the Fitness tree, whereas the Armigers have 600 base plus 95% (15+20+30+30). (need to doublecheck that +15%)

Sentinel: 3746.25, single target
675*(1+1.05+0.75+0.3+0.2+0.4)*1.5
Tech Armor gives them a nice +40% boost.  Unfortunately Warp's debuff applies to everything except melee (wtf).  Better to Overload (b/a/b to be safe) your melee target to damage and maybe stagger them first. You're in the Phantom Zone* with this build but your lack of mobility makes it risky.  Be careful. Alt Builder Setup

Soldier: 4009.5, single target
675*(1+1.05+0.75+0.3+0.2)*1.5*1.2
The 20% debuff from Proxy Mine is better that the Tech Armor boost since it multiplies total damage (and TA only grants +50% of Base damage).  On top of that, Proxy Mine has softened the target even further by doing 600-1000 damage and possibly staggering them.  This guy could be in the Phantom Zone, except Proxy Mine has probably triggered her bubble and the insane DR that goes along with it.  Good luck.  Your sacrifice will not be in vain.  Alt Builder Setup

Saboteur: 4320, 1-3 targets
600*(1+0.95+0.75+0.3+0.2)*1.5*1.5
The secret here is Tech Vulnerability: the 50% debuff is multiplicative and applies their Heavy Melee.  Thanks to backfire damage (600-1200 depending on evolutions), this build is firmly in the Phantom Zone.  I was happily hurling myself into Phantoms last night with this kit.  Even lag wasn't much of an issue thanks to the long range of his melee attack.  Have fun, just don't be stupid.  edit: Titus Thongger has a nice melee build here.  I've run it a few times an like it quite a bit.  Alt Builder Setup

Ghost: 4388 1-3 targets
600*(1+0.95+0.75+0.3+0.2+1.3+0.375)*1.5
Gotta love infiltrators:  +130% boost to base melee damage.  Another 37.5% when you pop a Stim Pack.  In-game, you can easily cast Overload before you melee (and do ~2x the Sentinel's damage with the same power).  Thanks to your TC damae bonus, Overload can be chained to soften up all three potential targets of your Heavy Melee.  Welcome to the Phantom Zone.  Kill them all.  Alt Builder Setup

Havoc: 4471, 1-3 targets
600*(1+0.95+0.75+0.3+0.2+0.4+0.375)*1.5*1.25
The Havoc looks like he's ahead of the Ghost, but it's a bit tricky to get to that number. First you've got to use a Stim Pack (+37.5%, then paint your target(s) with Cryo Blast (25% debuff), then perform a Havoc Strike (+40%), then 'finish' them off with your heavy melee.  I use a different melee build, skipping Cryo Blast entirely.  His damage drops, but it's much easier to build a consistent attack strategy around Strike+Melee either as a combo or as the "dual strike".  It's hard to say if he's in the Phantom Zone or not, since his best tactic (Strike, then HM) is much more succeptible to sync kill interrupts than the other Armigers' Power+HM which are initiated at range.  Kill them all, but don't be stupid.  Alt Builder Setup

Cabal: 4331, single target? **3032 Instant + 1299 DoT**
750*(1+0.95+0.75+0.3+0.2+0.65)*1.5
I haven't had a chance to use her much yet.  But she's got the highest base damage and a nice 65% boost from Biotic Focus.  Given her mobility and the high stagger from her attacks, she is most likely a prime Phantom killer despite having 30% of her total damage as DoT.  In the meantime, here's a recent thread from peddroelmz extoling her virtues..  FYI, Narida tool is currently not updated for her.

edit: I adjusted the final numbers to correspond with correct base value for Armigers (600 not 650) as confirmed hereand here.

edit2:  Updated the numbers for the Hydraulic Joints buff (15-20%) .  Adding the Cabal.

tl;dr  Havoc wins on paper, Ghost wins in the game, but all three Armigers are solid melee characters.  Original kits are not bad, since heavy melee kills add 25% to their already substantial weapon bonuses.  But otherwise they do less damage to one target than the Armigers can do to three -- depsite having a stronger base melee.

*You're in the Phantom Zone if you can reliably kill a Gold Phantom (4762 total health/barriers) with one power/melee cycle. When you say it, say like Archer.

Edited by Shampoohorn, 24 March 2015 - 08:48 PM.

[BioJaegar]

Nice work, but I'll stick to my Paladin.

Something about beating people senseless with an omnishield just tickles me pink.

[AngryBobH]

nice info. I actually run the engie and the havoc as melee builds. The engie seems a little trickier, to me. And, the havoc, when equipped properly, is a lol-fest.

[Tyrannus00]

I've run my havoc as a weapons guard. The melee build didn't work for me.

[Flambrose]

Ghost is a fun melee turian. Just don't use it against armor, except maybe to stagger. The armiger heavy melee needs to have that reduced armor effectiveness removed. Overload helps melee ghost OHKO most infantry in the game.

Turian Soldier is an interesting choice because he gets proxy mine to stagger and do damage. After a successful heavy melee kill, he also gets a weapon damage buff to let him go on a killing rampage. Pretty fun, but not very effective even on gold. Wouldn't bother with Platinum.

[Shampoohorn]

AngryBobH wrote...

nice info. I actually run the engie and the havoc as melee builds. The engie seems a little trickier, to me. And, the havoc, when equipped properly, is a lol-fest.

The Engineer has to be selective about when and who he melees, but that's pretty much the case with all kits on Gold.  The sabotage/melee cycle is great for mid level mooks and phantoms though.  I've saved PUG teammates countless times with it.  The 30% boost in weapon damage is a sweet reward.

@Tyranus:  The melee built works best with some extra shielding.  Plus, learning how to perform a dual-strike really helps; that's when you execute a Strike and Heavy Melee simulataneously.  Press "1" then "F" after a slight delay.  As long as you're in melee range you'll hit the target(s) for ~6000 combined damage.

Edited by Shampoohorn, 28 January 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[Arppis]

BioJaegar wrote...

Nice work, but I'll stick to my Paladin.

[Shampoohorn]

Arppis wrote...

BioJaegar wrote...

Nice work, but I'll stick to my Paladin.

Playing the paladin is still on my ToDo list.

But they've got a fairly low base heavy melee damage.  400 in the narida tool.  Do they have a big force modifier or some other trick that makes their melee attack very effective?

[Tybo]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Arppis wrote...

BioJaegar wrote...

Nice work, but I'll stick to my Paladin.

Playing the paladin is still on my ToDo list.

But they've got a fairly low base heavy melee damage.  400 in the narida tool.  Do they have a big force modifier or some other trick that makes their melee attack very effective?

It actually deals 2x damage.   To everything but armor.  Link here

[Fortack]

Nice list! Never used the Turians as melee specialists, might give it a try now.

P.S. I don't know the numbers but the "old" Turians (Soldier and Sentinel) have a much faster melee attack than the new kits. IMO speed is pretty important for melee if you want to avoid punching air most of the time coz one of your buddies has already shot the target ...
What about DR during the melee animation? Know anything about that?

[stysiaq]

Thanks, Shampoohorn.

My Havoc is a cryo-less melee build, but even with the dual strike trick, I couldn't melee my way into victory.

Perhaps I'll run the Saboteur melee. There oughtta be at least one Armiger I can enjoy playing.

[Abramsrunner]

One thing you could do with the havoc on host at melee range is dual strike.
How you do is, press Havoc Strike then immediately Heavy Melee before you hit your target, only do this at the range of your Heavy Melee.

[Flambrose]

Fortack wrote...

Nice list! Never used the Turians as melee specialists, might give it a try now.

P.S. I don't know the numbers but the "old" Turians (Soldier and Sentinel) have a much faster melee attack than the new kits. IMO speed is pretty important for melee if you want to avoid punching air most of the time coz one of your buddies has already shot the target ...
What about DR during the melee animation? Know anything about that?

Actually, the vanilla turians have quite the wind up for their heavy melee. I find it difficult to heavy melee Phantoms without getting shanked first with it. The armiger HM may take about the same amount of time, but you can start it from a reasonable distance away, making it safer. The only bad thing about armiger's HM is that you can be staggered out of it. Dragoons and random Atlas missiles from across the map can be a pain.

[stysiaq]

hmmm....

Shampoohorn wrote...

Saboteur: 4784, 1-3 targets
The secret here is Tech Vulnerability: the 50% debuff is multiplicative and applies their Heavy Melee.  Thanks to backfire damage (600-1000), this build is firmly in the Phantom Zone.  I was happily hurling myself into Phantoms last night with this kit.  Even lag wasn't much of an issue thanks to the long range of his melee attack.  Have fun, just don't be stupid.

I think you may be asking too much

[Shampoohorn]

Fortack wrote...

Nice list! Never used the Turians as melee specialists, might give it a try now.

P.S. I don't know the numbers but the "old" Turians (Soldier and Sentinel) have a much faster melee attack than the new kits. IMO speed is pretty important for melee if you want to avoid punching air most of the time coz one of your buddies has already shot the target ...
What about DR during the melee animation? Know anything about that?

I agree that the original Turians have a fast melee.  As does the Human Sentinel.  It make the Rank 6 melee option especially appealling to the T-Soldier: +25% weapon damage on top of Marksman, on top of the Proxy debuff.
- Oddly, the Armigers all get +30% instead of +25%. 

Like Vanguards the Havoc gets 50% DR for 4 seconds from Strike.  Based on experience, I'm going to guess all three Armigers get some DR during Heavy Melee --  probably another 50% -- but the long animation makes them very susceptible to getting staggered out of it.

[Shampoohorn]

M1A2 Abrams Tank wrote...

One thing you could do with the havoc on host at melee range is dual strike.
How you do is, press Havoc Strike then immediately Heavy Melee before you hit your target, only do this at the range of your Heavy Melee.

The combo strike is great, if a bit hard to pull off consistently. Luckily it's not essential to enjoying or succeeding with the kit, especially now that they've reduced the cooldown on the power. 

I've gotten it to work both on and off host, btw.

[Shampoohorn]

Bump. Updated the builds to full 84 points. Added in the relevance of Melee Synergy to weapon damage.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Shampoohorn wrote...

M1A2 Abrams Tank wrote...

One thing you could do with the havoc on host at melee range is dual strike.
How you do is, press Havoc Strike then immediately Heavy Melee before you hit your target, only do this at the range of your Heavy Melee.

The combo strike is great, if a bit hard to pull off consistently. Luckily it's not essential to enjoying or succeeding with the kit, especially now that they've reduced the cooldown on the power. 

I've gotten it to work both on and off host, btw.

Did not know this trick, will have to try it!

[TriniWarlord]

Tech vulnerability applies to Heavy Melee?? Some Verification on this please

[Shampoohorn]

TriniWarlord wrote...

Tech vulnerability applies to Heavy Melee?? Some Verification on this please

Yes it does.  The QFI thread in my sig has extensive info.  (She can do 6008 damage to a single target btw. )

Tyhw showed it with numbers here.  He (or maybe corlist?) subsequently verified with the saboteur.  What hasn't been shown is whether this works for all heavy melees or only for those with a tech component.*  Saboteur / Batarian duo might be a killer combo if TV applies to the Falcon Punch.

*Our playtesters also showed that the Operative Pack (+12% Tech Damage) did not add to this heavy melee damage.  So it's not a cut and dry mechanic.

[SavagelyEpic]

Shampoohorn wrote...
The QFI thread in my sig has extensive info.  (She can do 6008 damage to a single target btw. )

I find it hilarious that a class who is essentially a teenaged civilian technical expert dishes out more melee damage than the elite troops of the galaxy's most powerful military.

[Shampoohorn]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...
The QFI thread in my sig has extensive info.  (She can do 6008 damage to a single target btw. )

I find it hilarious that a class who is essentially a teenaged civilian technical expert dishes out more melee damage than the elite troops of the galaxy's most powerful military.

I find it savagely epic.  ;o)

Keep in mind that if TV applies to other melees, then the Batarian's peak damage is 8213.  Given that the Falcon Punch incorporates his Omnitool, there's a fair chance that the bonus applies.  I made a request in the Numerical thread for a check on this.

Edited by Shampoohorn, 30 January 2013 - 10:13 PM.

[aruguren]

Seems so much fun, too bad I can't take away this prejudice "melee = death (to me)" of my mind.

[Shampoohorn]

Downgraded the Armigers' numbers in the OP by about 8%. Narida tool lists base damage as 650, but it's actually 600.

[TriniWarlord]

Will have to try this... most definately