32 replies to this topic

[Tybo]

 Praetorians can suffer double hits from the front and back.  In addition, with massive amounts of piercing (Javelin + Drill 3), you can get double hits through the demon barrier technique.

In addition, Praetorian headshots actually do 2x damage, not 1.4x.  Here's how it works:

Scenario A)  Double Hit when faceplates are up:

Shots hit as follows:  Ammo damage, bodyshot, pen ammo dam, pen (bodyshot or headshot, depending on where you hit.  Headshot does 2x damage)

Scenario  Double hit when faceplates are broken (warning: inconsistent)

Shots hit as follows:  Ammo damage, pen ammo dam,  pen (body or head shot, depending on where you hit)

It is also occasionally possible to get a full double hit as when the face plates broken.

Depending on where you hit, you can also get regular bodyshots and regular headshots


Scenario C)  Double hit on the Praetorian bubble

Shots hit as follows: ammo damage, bodyshot, pen ammo dam, pen (body or headshot)

Scenario D)  Double hit from behind the praetorian

Shots hit as follows:  ammo dam, bodyshot, pen ammo dam, pen bodyshot  (needs lots of piercing)


Scenario A)  On Praetorian barriers
Praetorian damage: 403.000000 //Warp ammo
1ms | Praetorian  damage: 647.000000 //Saber bodyshot
0ms | Praetorian damage: 242.000000 //Warp ammo piercing
0ms | Praetorian damage: 777.000000 //Saber headshot piercing (=Saber bodyshot *2)

Scenario On Praetorian Armor
582ms | Praetorian damage: 201.250000  //Ammo
0ms | Praetorian damage: 120.750000 // Ammo piercing
0ms | Praetorian damage: 773.750000 // Saber headshot piercing (=Saber bodyshot*2)

Scenario C) On Praetorian Armor
126445ms | Praetorian damage: 486.926758 // Ammo
0ms | Praetorian damage: 2231.749023 // Javelin bodysho
t0ms | Praetorian damage: 486.926758 // Ammo piercing
0ms | Praetorian damage: 4463.498047 // Javelin headshot piercing (=Javelin bodyshot*2)

Scenario D) On Praetorian Armor
4848ms | Praetorian damage: 486.926758 // Ammo
0ms | Praetorian damage: 2231.749023 //Javelin bodyshot
0ms | Praetorian damage: 486.926758 //Ammo piercing
1ms | Praetorian damage: 2231.749023 //Javelin bodyshot

Note that we got similar results on both barriers and armor in terms of numbers of hits and damage done.   I just excluded the numbers for most, to declutter.

Much thanks to OnlyUseMeGI and corlist for their help.

Edited by tyhw, 15 May 2013 - 08:37 PM.

[NuclearTech76]

Is there any DR from the bubble to weapons fire? Do debuffs still function while bubble is raised?

[Anubis_TPF]

Good info. How many meters of piercing is needed, exactly? Where you using the AP mod, barrel, or both on the Saber?

Edited by Anubis_TPF, 15 May 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[UnknownMercenary]

Nicely done

[peddroelm]

could do a quick edit and replace scion with praetorian (would remove unnecessary confusion source)

[Ziegrif]

So where exactly should I shoot?

[acicm2]

Ziegrif wrote...

So where exactly should I shoot?

in the legs to slow it down.

[Dunvi]

It's possible to consistently 3-shot non-possessed praetorians with a javelin if you shoot them right, so I'm not even remotely surprised, but I am glad to have it confirmed.

Regarding the headshots, that is correct. It's in the coalesced:

"headshotmultiplier": [
{
"Type": 2,
"Value": "1.f"
}
],

in comparison, look at the headshot damage for atlas2 (remember this DLC both re-added boss headshots in, and changed the atlas, so this one is actually correct where as any boss headshot values for other bosses are being overwritten serverside):

"headshotmultiplier": [
{
"Type": 2,
"Value": "0.4f"
}
]
},

scions definitely have the 1.4 bonus, not the 2.0.

I might add another post when I come back from breakfast, there's some interesting scripts in the praetorian's pcc files you might find intriguing.

eta: fixed a typo. dunvi hasn't had her coffee yet.
eta2: not making that post, it's not really sanything anything.

Edited by Dunvi, 15 May 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Domnuxx]

Subscribing to this & waiting for a picture.

[landylan]

Where's its head at for the headshot bonus anyhoo?

[Dunvi]

landylan wrote...

Where's its head at for the headshot bonus anyhoo?

Through the chest plate. You have to exceed its BreachDamageThreshold within the timer duration, and the plate will break revealing the husk heads inside. That's where you hit it for headshot damage.

A note of interest, the praetorian and the scion have the same bit of code in their initializers that the banshee does that I enumerated the other day, where their BreachDamageThreshold is halved in solos.

In games with more than 1 player, the platinum breach damage is 14654.25, which you can do with a single javelin shot from an infiltrator with the double hit bugs. If you have armor damaging ammo on I, believe you should be able to do it without even hitting the face with the double hits.

Like I said, it's very easy to consistently drop a praetorian with 3 javelin shots or 2 BW clips. It's partially why collectors are actually pretty damn easy for snipers.

off topic, Ty, are you going to update the weapon calculator? And/or can you help me understand how it works so I can update mine myself? (I don't know how to use google doc's spreadsheets at all lol.)

Edited by Dunvi, 15 May 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[Ziegrif]

Dunvi wrote...

landylan wrote...

Where's its head at for the headshot bonus anyhoo?

Through the chest plate. You have to exceed its BreachDamageThreshold within the timer duration, and the plate will break revealing the husk heads inside. That's where you hit it for headshot damage.

A note of interest, the praetorian and the scion have the same bit of code in their initializers that the banshee does that I enumerated the other day, where their BreachDamageThreshold is halved in solos.

Does VI gear, mods and consumables affect the HS bonus in anyway whatsoever? Can I make a headshot through the plate? Where exactly should I shoot on the giant enemy crab for massive dmg with double hits?

Edited by Ziegrif, 15 May 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[Dunvi]

Ziegrif wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

landylan wrote...

Where's its head at for the headshot bonus anyhoo?

Through the chest plate. You have to exceed its BreachDamageThreshold within the timer duration, and the plate will break revealing the husk heads inside. That's where you hit it for headshot damage.

A note of interest, the praetorian and the scion have the same bit of code in their initializers that the banshee does that I enumerated the other day, where their BreachDamageThreshold is halved in solos.

Does VI gear, mods and consumables affect the HS bonus in anyway whatsoever? Can I make a headshot through the plate? Where exactly should I shoot on the giant enemy crab for massive dmg with double hits?

I can never freaking remember which headshot modifiers affect boss headshots, but I believe that passive headshot bonuses apply, and gear/equipment headshot bonuses apply, but individual weapon bonuses do not, weapon mod bonuses do not, and power-originated bonuses do not.

Yes, you can absolutely makea  headshot through the plate, but you actually sorta don't need to.

The best way to take down a Praetorian IMO is with a sniper rifle with lots of penetration, with him coming straight for you and you shooting him straight from the front through the chest plate. Like I said, consistently 3 javelin shots or 2 BW clips.

[BridgeBurner]

Yah, praetorian headshots have a different value in the coalesced from the other bosses, I reckon it's deliberate...

[BridgeBurner]

Targetting VI consumables and headshot gear gives an additional additive bonus against bosses and mooks, applied only for headshots. So it's like having a 35% amp if you hit the head instead of a 30% amp.

[Ziegrif]

Annomander wrote...

Targetting VI consumables and headshot gear gives an additional additive bonus against bosses and mooks, applied only for headshots. So it's like having a 35% amp if you hit the head instead of a 30% amp.

Thanks AnnoMcBeefHuge and DunviHumvi.

I've been stacking AI stuff for a while now, might aswell substitute Shotgun consumables for AI gear... Because I have a big flat zero on Shottie consumables other than 1s.

[Dunvi]

Annomander wrote...

Yah, praetorian headshots have a different value in the coalesced from the other bosses, I reckon it's deliberate...

It looks pretty damn deliberate. There's literally only 3 lines in all of the coalesced files including the dlc ones that alter enemy headshot damage from base, I find it hard to believe someone would type a 1.f when they meant a .4f in that case.

I wonder if it's because you have to break the plate to get the headshot - all other bosses are choosing between weak points or headshots. Makes you wonder if the devs play test with piercing mods praetorians shouldn't be easier to take down than scions.

[BridgeBurner]

Dunvi wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Yah, praetorian headshots have a different value in the coalesced from the other bosses, I reckon it's deliberate...

It looks pretty damn deliberate. There's literally only 3 lines in all of the coalesced files including the dlc ones that alter enemy headshot damage from base, I find it hard to believe someone would type a 1.f when they meant a .4f in that case.

I wonder if it's because you have to break the plate to get the headshot - all other bosses are choosing between weak points or headshots. Makes you wonder if the devs play test with piercing mods praetorians shouldn't be easier to take down than scions.

Dunvi - and I'm risking sounding like a total **** here - but sometimes I wonder if the devs tested anything at all in this game.

N7 piranha buff, anyone? The weapon destroyed everything.... then they buffed it, then they nerfed it twice....

[Tybo]

Dunvi wrote...

It's possible to consistently 3-shot non-possessed praetorians with a javelin if you shoot them right, so I'm not even remotely surprised, but I am glad to have it confirmed.

Regarding the headshots, that is correct. It's in the coalesced:

"headshotmultiplier": [
{
"Type": 2,
"Value": "1.f"
}
],

in comparison, look at the headshot damage for atlas2 (remember this DLC both re-added boss headshots in, and changed the atlas, so this one is actually correct where as any boss headshot values for other bosses are being overwritten serverside):

"headshotmultiplier": [
{
"Type": 2,
"Value": "0.4f"
}
]
},

scions definitely have the 1.4 bonus, not the 2.0.

I might add another post when I come back from breakfast, there's some interesting scripts in the praetorian's pcc files you might find intriguing.

eta: fixed a typo. dunvi hasn't had her coffee yet.
eta2: not making that post, it's not really sanything anything.

Nice.  Confirmation!  I'll admit, that 2x damage had me very confused.  I definitely didn't believe it at first...

I remembered seeing the new Atlas/banshee/etc headshot modifiers in the patch and started to look in the coalesced for confirmation.  But it was 4 am and I was tired and incoherent...so I gave up

Edited by tyhw, 15 May 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[BridgeBurner]

Scions have 1.4 too, but their sac bursts dealing about 20% damage, so it evens out. I don't see anything in the files regarding damage spikes for praetorian breach points... though strangely, Praetorians have "shoulder armour" breach point variables too... maybe they based them off atlasses and never removed these?

Edited by Annomander, 15 May 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[Tybo]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Is there any DR from the bubble to weapons fire? Do debuffs still function while bubble is raised?

Didn't test debuffs.  Debuffs do function on banshee bubbles, and I assume its the same here.

There was no DR from the bubble.  But it does stop you from double hitting without massive piercing, and it stops you from getting headshots (very easy), so it does definitely reduce your weapon damage without that piercing.

[Tybo]

Anubis_TPF wrote...

Good info. How many meters of piercing is needed, exactly? Where you using the AP mod, barrel, or both on the Saber?

Saber just had a HVB

[BridgeBurner]

I'm quite sure the bubble does have a damage scale pct stat, not sure if it's active, but I definitely believe the bubble was supposed to reduce weapon damage.

[Dunvi]

Annomander wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Yah, praetorian headshots have a different value in the coalesced from the other bosses, I reckon it's deliberate...

It looks pretty damn deliberate. There's literally only 3 lines in all of the coalesced files including the dlc ones that alter enemy headshot damage from base, I find it hard to believe someone would type a 1.f when they meant a .4f in that case.

I wonder if it's because you have to break the plate to get the headshot - all other bosses are choosing between weak points or headshots. Makes you wonder if the devs play test with piercing mods praetorians shouldn't be easier to take down than scions.

Dunvi - and I'm risking sounding like a total **** here - but sometimes I wonder if the devs tested anything at all in this game.

N7 piranha buff, anyone? The weapon destroyed everything.... then they buffed it, then they nerfed it twice....

I bet they tested it on power classes, because it was intended to be a shotgun for CQC casters. The problem with the piranha is that its DPS is effing ridiculous on weapons classes, and the way it was approached as a shotgun actually means the classes that use it best are the tanky ones who can stand there and unload the entire freaking clip (its DPS is spread across its large, fast-firing clip, so to get its ridiculous potential DPS you have to unload the entire clip).

[Dunvi]

tyhw wrote...

There was no DR from the bubble.  But it does stop you from double hitting without massive piercing, and it stops you from getting headshots (very easy), so it does definitely reduce your weapon damage without that piercing.

Alright, I am very glad to hear that. Since people kept on claiming that the bubble reduced weapon damage, I spent several hours digging through the PCC files trying to find anything regarding that, and never once found a damage modifier either as a variable or hard coded. Now I can stop looking thank god.

Edited by Dunvi, 15 May 2013 - 06:29 PM.