26 replies to this topic

[Computron2000]

Description: For the objective where the team has to kill 4 targets, it is possible to control what appears as the 2nd or later target. The main advantage of this is that the first target is normally the "boss" level enemy. If the target is killed by itself, the next target will again be the same "boss" level enemy. However if the target is killed at the same time with other enemies, the 2nd target will change to be something else other than the "boss" which will have much less health and be much easier to kill.

Test: The test is that 1st target and a single instance of a enemy type (eg. 1 atlas which is the 1st target + 1 nemesis) would be isolated and missiled. This would check whether the enemy would respawn as the 2nd target. This also shows that you don't need to kill a lot of stuff together, just the 1st target and a valid enemy.

Shortform: In general, the 2nd target will never come from the "unlimited" category in the wave composition. The exception is when the target is limited in the number of times they can appear in a wave such as a praetorian. If you kill the non-target praetorian in wave 10 repeatedly for 5 times, when you kill the target praetorian, the next target will be from the "unlimited" category.

Wierd Exception: Reapers wave 6. The brute cannot be changed to a marauder or ravager. Missile all 8 enemies on the map at the same time and you'll still get a brute as the 2nd target. Because of this exception, there is no general rule (wave budget cost, enemy size, etc) that can be used to explain why wave switching exists

Disclaimer: Note that this is on PC. No idea if there is any difference with consoles. Also i'm lazy, this also only tests for the 1st target and only for gold. 

*****************Gold Cerberus***************
Wave 3
Initial Boss: Atlas
Unlimited: AssaultTrooper
Confirmed switch: Nemesis, Phoenix
Note: Kill all dragoons = 4th target is an assault trooper

Wave 6
Initial Boss: Phantom
Unlimited: Nemesis
Confirmed switch: Engineer, Phoenix

Wave 10
Initial Boss: Atlas
Unlimited: Engineer
Confirmed switch: Phantom

*****************Gold Geth*********************
Wave 3
Initial Boss: Geth Prime
Unlimited: GethTrooper
Confirmed switch: GethBomber, GethPyro

Wave 6
Initial Boss: Geth Prime
Unlimited: GethHunter
Confirmed switch: GethRocketTrooper, GethPyro

Wave 10
Initial Boss: Geth Prime
Unlimited: GethRocketTrooper
Confirmed switch: GethPyro, GethHunter

***********************Gold Reapers***************************
Wave 3
Initial Boss: Banshee
Unlimited: Cannibal
Confirmed switch: Marauder, Brute

Wave 6
Initial Boss: Brute
Unlimited: Marauder
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: Ravager

Wave 10
Initial Boss: Banshee
Unlimited: Marauder
Confirmed switch: Ravager, Brute

***********************Gold Collectors***************************
Wave 3 
Initial Boss: Praetorian, MaxPerWave=3
Unlimited: CollectorTrooper
Confirmed switch: Abomination, CollectorCaptain
Note: Killing all praetorians will spawn a collector trooper as the 4th target

Wave 6
Initial Boss: Praetorian, MaxPerWave=6
Unlimited: CollectorTrooper
Confirmed switch: CollectorCaptain, Scion
Note: Killing 5 praetorians then the 1st target will spawn a collector trooper as the 2nd target

Wave 10
Initial Boss: Praetorian, MaxPerWave=6
Unlimited: Abomination
Confirmed switch: CollectorCaptain, Scion

Platinum Target Changing
For platinum, the mixing of factions seem to kill any chance of target switching.

Only 2 waves out of all the possible 12 objective waves allow switching though that makes it easier to remember -> Reapers 6 and Collectors 3. The value of target switching in both of these waves isn't useful much (initial target of atlas and brute respectively and supporting troop types are not really dangerous)

From the results, assuming that there was no hardcoding to fix the target to only X when they added platinum, there's no fixed spawn order sequence nor does size matter. In reapers 10, you cannot switch a banshee to a prime and in geth 10, you cannot switch a prime to a banshee. If there was a spawn order to it or if size/animation complexity mattered, one of those waves would be switchable.

Conclusion: For platinum, you're stuck with shooting the targets down or expending missiles to keep the objective short.

*****************Plat Cerberus (no switchable waves)***************
Wave 3
Initial Boss: Atlas
Unlimited: Phantom
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: Brute, Ravager

Wave 6
Initial Boss: Atlas
Unlimited: Guardian
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: GethBomber, GethHunter

Wave 10
Initial Boss: Atlas
Unlimited: Phantom
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: GethBomber, Banshee

*****************Plat Geth (no switchable waves) ***************
Wave 3
Initial Boss: GethPrime
Unlimited: GethPyro
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: Centurion, Engineer

Wave 6
Initial Boss: GethPrime
Unlimited: GethBomber 
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: Brute, Ravager

Wave 10
Initial Boss: GethPrime
Unlimited: GethHunter 
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: Phantom, Banshee

*****************Plat Reapers (switchable only on wave 6)***************
Wave 3
Initial Boss: Banshee
Unlimited: Marauder  
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: GethHunter, GethPyro

Wave 6
Initial Boss: Atlas
Unlimited: Brute  
Confirmed switch: Ravager, Guardian

Wave 10
Initial Boss: Banshee
Unlimited: Ravager
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: Phantom, GethPrime

*****************Plat Collectors (switchable only on wave 3)***************
Wave 3
Initial Boss: Brute
Unlimited: CollectorTrooper 
Confirmed switch: Abomination
Confirmed switch fail: Ravager

Wave 6
Initial Boss: Praetorian
Unlimited: Abomination 
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: Atlas, Engineer

Wave 10
Initial Boss: Praetorian
Unlimited: CollectorTrooper 
Confirmed switch: None
Confirmed switch fail: GethPrime, Banshee

edit: corrected typing errors on collectors

Edited by Computron2000, 15 August 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Chromatix]

[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

Here are some spaces for ya.

Pretty interesting info, though.

P.S. I guess, if you switch for Dragoon, then both 3rd and 4th enemies on Cerb W3 will be Troopers, since there can only be 3 Dragoons on W3

Edited by Chromatix, 09 August 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[planehazza]

Didn't know if was so complex. I just missile the banshee **** making sure I take out a brawler as well.

[FasterThanFTL]

Reading that made me forget things I already knew.

[Computron2000]

Chromatix wrote...
P.S. I guess, if you switch for Dragoon, then both 3rd and 4th enemies on Cerb W3 will be Troopers, since there can only be 3 Dragoons on W3

As the 1st dragoon is killed with the atlas and there is only 1 dragoon on the map, only the 4th target will be a trooper. The 2nd and 3rd targets will be dragoons.

Edited by Computron2000, 09 August 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[Chromatix]

Computron2000 wrote...

Chromatix wrote...

[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

Here are some spaces for ya.

Pretty interesting info, though.

P.S. I guess, if you switch for Dragoon, then both 3rd and 4th enemies on Cerb W3 will be Troopers, since there can only be 3 Dragoons on W3

As the 1st dragoon is killed with the atlas and there is only 1 dragoon every wave, only the 4th target will be a trooper. The 2nd and 3rd targets will be dragoons.

Ah, right. First target. Lol, wtf was i thinking about. 

[capn233]

Thanks for the info.

Now the mystery is still why the targets switch, and why the higher tier units seem to have a delay for spawning.

[MGW7]

Capn

When the target is killed the next valid enemy spawned will be target,

When multiple enemies spawn the lowest tier units spawn first, except unlimited enemies who are always last to spawn,

Technically when you missile an atlas and phantom they spawn at the same time, but the game handles the phantoms spawning first, so the phantom becomes the target,

When the last of a wave limited enemy is killed an unlimited enemy takes it's place,

[Terrapin]

Nice breakdown

[Deerber]

Nice to see this, thanks for taking the time to put it down. Although it's info most experienced players already know, I'd say it's usually instinctive knowledge and it is good to see it written down. Plus not everyone is experienced around here, I guess.

[cato potato]

Thanks for doing this computron. Someone was looking for this kind of info recently but my searches uncovered nothing.

[Creator Limbs]

Unlimited Nemsises on wave 6? Oh man, I know what I'm doing today.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Wow, it must have taken a while to test all those! 

Thanks for taking the time. 

[Prestacious]

Great job! This is a very good reference, it should be in DragonRacer's thread

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Prestacious wrote...

Great job! This is a very good reference, it should be in DragonRacer's thread

I agree. :happy:

I would add a little to the title to clarify the subject, mentioning Objective Assassinations. That way, people would know right away what "switching targets" means. Maybe even a sentence mentioning how rocketing assassination targets can cause the next target to switch to a different unit, for new players who aren't familiar the trick.

[Dunvi]

capn233 wrote...

Thanks for the info.

Now the mystery is still why the targets switch, and why the higher tier units seem to have a delay for spawning.

processing time is my guess.

[Computron2000]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...
I would add a little to the title to clarify the subject, mentioning Objective Assassinations. That way, people would know right away what "switching targets" means. Maybe even a sentence mentioning how rocketing assassination targets can cause the next target to switch to a different unit, for new players who aren't familiar the trick.

Good point. Will add an explaination and change the title

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

By any chance are you going to do this test for plat in the near future?

[Red Panda]

Nice!

Time rewards the dedicated.

[Computron2000]

The Krauser wrote...

By any chance are you going to do this test for plat in the near future?

Yes, will be testing on plat as well but it will take some time mostly because the tests are very boring and isolating the 2 enemies uses more time than expected.

Will update and bump this post when i finish testing plat

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

Computron2000 wrote...

The Krauser wrote...

By any chance are you going to do this test for plat in the near future?

Yes, will be testing on plat as well but it will take some time mostly because the tests are very boring and isolating the 2 enemies uses more time than expected.

Will update and bump this post when i finish testing plat

Alright then. Sweet. 

[Red Panda]

What I'm getting here is that spawn nuking seems effective in most cases.

Have fun with the platinum testing. That'll be a doozy. Again, thank you. I'll go make sure this link is in the library if it already isn't.

[chcknwng]

Ah thanks a million. I was wondering about this right before you posted it. Seems legit on PS3 as well.

Looking forward to the test on plat.

[Tallgeese_VII]

I play mostly Gold and here is my rule

Atlas = Rocket if with Phantom/Nemesis
Banshee = Rocket if with non-carnibal enemies
Prime = Rocket if with non-rocket trooper/trooper unit
Praetorian = Rocket... just better to kill it before the damn thing turn possessed..

-----------

I suppose what I posted few weeks ago is generally correct.
Experience speaks for itself..

[Computron2000]

Completed the platinum testing and it was pretty bad. Had to test if nuking the unlimited category types with the target changed it but none did so the rule of unlimited aren't valid switches still hold.

A lot of the limited category troops were not from the main faction. That may have been 1 reason why target switching failed though that is countered by guardians being valid switch targets on reapers 6