59 replies to this topic

[-PenguinFetish-]

This is in my opinion the best Nechromancer build. Its very fun and it allows you to play CQC as opposed to being ranged at all times. Plus she is a massive ****** to all the other characters, especially the beta male archer.

 

Abilities:

 

• Winters Grasp (freezes a single target. 200% weapon damage, 4s duration, 8s chill, 16s cooldown. Cost: 65 Mana, upgrade grants 3m AoE chill effect)

 

• Fade Step (Evade ability. 2s Duration, 12s cooldown. Upgrade grants 300% weapon damage and 8s chill when passing through enemies) 

 

•  Blizzard (AoE cast which can be toggled on and off. 150% weapon damage per second. 8s chill. 8m AoE. 24s Cooldown. Cost: 5 mana per second active. Upgrade grants 75% bonus damage and progressively chills enemies in radius till frozen)

 

• Walking Bomb (200% weapon damage per second. 10s duration. When detonated (remotely or when 10s has expired, explosion deals 600% weapon damage. 5m radius. 20s Cooldown. Cost: 65 mana. Upgrade enables walking bomb to spread to nearby targets if it kills the first enemy for more explosions)

 

Mandatory passives:

 

• Blinding Terror (15% damage vs panicked enemies. +3 magic) 

 

• Conductive Current, (5% damage for every 10% mana missing)

 

• Hastened Demise (2% damage for each 10% missing enemy health) 

 

• Simulacrum (When downed, you become a spirit for 10s. Casting costs no mana. Needs reviving when spirit disappears. +3 willpower)  

 

• Death Siphon (20 mana and 10% health restored when an enemy is killed near you. +3 constitution) 

 

• Gathering Storm (0.5s cooldown reduction per attack. +3 willpower) 

 

• Clean Burn (1s cooldown reduction per spell cast. +3 willpower)

 

• Ice Armor (50% damage reduction when near a frozen enemy or in Blizzard radius. +3 willpower) 

 

• Tricks of the Trade (10% damage and duration to all team status effects. +3 willpower) 

 

• Frost Mastery (25% freeze and chill duration. +3 magic)  

 

Unlock Fade Step and Ice Armor first(level 4), then beeline to Walking Bomb/Death Siphon (level 10), then Blizzard(level 13). Upgrade all your abilities (Walking Bomb, Fade Step, Winters Grasp then Blizzard). You will have 2 points left over, which you can put into whatever you prefer.

 

For groups of enemies, lead with Blizzard, follow up immediately with Walking Bomb while you still have a good amount of mana (blizzard is active until mana is empty). Fade Step or run into the middle of the Blizzard to activate your ice armor, Detonate Walking Bomb then use winters grasp/walking bomb until everything is dead. Death Siphon enables you to keep alive and keep Blizzard up. Fade step to safety if needs be. 

For single targets, alternate between walking bomb and winters grasp depending on the need. Remember to incapacitate ranged units because they are very strong on higher difficulties. Use Blizzard for DR if possible.

 

Gameplay vs Templars and Demons on Threatening Difficulty. Link

 

Nechromancer Skill Tree

 

 

[Bastion6six6]

I disagree.  Blizzard and ice armor are terrible.  The damage that blizzard puts out nowhere NEAR warrants the mana drain, skill points and ability spot.  Heres my suggestion

 

Get all of the passives in gravelord tree except for pyromancer, get upgraded walking bomb.  Then go to permafrost tree, upgrade winters grasp and get all of the passives there except for ice armor (the range it requires to be in effect is terrible as is the games recognition of "cold" effects) and winter stillness (you should be getting plenty of mana from dying enemies), get upgraded energy barrage.  Those 3 skills are all you need.  Winters grasp is amazing for CC and instant damage, walking bomb is probably the most OP thing in the game and energy barrage is for when you want elemental damage/another spell while walking bomb is cooling down.

[Beefbowl]

I disagree. Blizzard and ice armor are great. Blizzard is more about cc than damage. Ice armor + death syphon makes a great combo.

[-PenguinFetish-]

I disagree. Blizzard and ice armor are terrible. The damage that blizzard puts out nowhere NEAR warrants the mana drain, skill points and ability spot. Heres my suggestion

Get all of the passives in gravelord tree except for pyromancer, get upgraded walking bomb. Then go to permafrost tree, upgrade winters grasp and get all of the passives there except for ice armor (the range it requires to be in effect is terrible as is the games recognition of "cold" effects) and winter stillness (you should be getting plenty of mana from dying enemies), get upgraded energy barrage. Those 3 skills are all you need. Winters grasp is amazing for CC and instant damage, walking bomb is probably the most OP thing in the game and energy barrage is for when you want elemental damage/another spell while walking bomb is cooling down.

Have you even used blizzard/ice armor? It makes you insanely tanky, given all melee enemies will be frozen if they target you for longer than a few seconds. I have full health for most of the games i play as a direct result of death siphon, ice armor and blizzard.

Your spec is better suited to a ranged keeper or elementalist, not a cqc nechromancer.

[Bastion6six6]

Insanely tanky...even in the video you posted you take noticeable damage with ice armor on.  The only reason you "shine" in that video is because of a competent group and that keeper barrier.  I'd rather trade defense for damage, especially when the class is a mage.  My first warlock had blizzard/ice armor and I was equally as excited as you for how good it looked on paper, but in practice its just awful.  Half the time ice armor wouldn't even activate even if I'm in the middle of my blizzard and even if it did, so what, its 50% damage reduction on a MAGE, we have barely any defense to begin with.  It's not like you are going toe to toe with brutes and pride demons (at least I hope you aren't...you should be at the back casting spells).

 

It's a "fine" build and if it works for you then go for it, but like I said, why bother dedicating points to making yourself more "tanky"...as a mage...when those points can go into other skills that will pump up your damage?  You're entire class is built on RANGED attacks, don't gimp them so you can brag about taking less damage.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Insanely tanky...even in the video you posted you take noticeable damage with ice armor on.  The only reason you "shine" in that video is because of a competent group and that keeper barrier.  I'd rather trade defense for damage, especially when the class is a mage.  My first warlock had blizzard/ice armor and I was equally as excited as you for how good it looked on paper, but in practice its just awful.  Half the time ice armor wouldn't even activate even if I'm in the middle of my blizzard and even if it did, so what, its 50% damage reduction on a MAGE, we have barely any defense to begin with.  It's not like you are going toe to toe with brutes and pride demons (at least I hope you aren't...you should be at the back casting spells).

 

It's a "fine" build and if it works for you then go for it, but like I said, why bother dedicating points to making yourself more "tanky"...as a mage...when those points can go into other skills that will pump up your damage?  You're entire class is built on RANGED attacks, don't gimp them so you can brag about taking less damage.

 

I didn't go below half health for any of it. Bear in mind this isn't cherry picked, its 2 games that I recorded back to back. Barriers are essential on the higher difficulties due to ranged attacks. The only points I spent on defense is Ice armor aswell. Hardly dedicating loads of points. 

As for a competent group, this was a pug. No communication whatsoever. So if you mean 'not a complete liability' then you would be correct. The only reason I shine in that video is because I actually research what im doing and generally consider myself a good player. If you watch the video, there is several instances where im surrounded by enemies, but still come out unscathed. 

 

Seeing as you are so sure of yourself, how about you post your build video? Im sure you are a fantastic player, so im sure I could learn a lot from watching your gameplay. 

[Bastion6six6]

By competent I mean able to clean up the scraps left after your walking bomb blows away most of their health so that nothing is left to hit you after you charge into the middle of their group.  From what I've seen in threatening and perilous, most groups don't have a keeper, so that does not go without saying.  A competent keeper (meaning one who actually uses barrier and doesn't just spam lightning strike and energy barrage) can be the glue that holds the group together and bragging about not falling below half health on threatening with one in the party does you no favors (combined with the fact that if warlocks didn't have death siphon you most certainly would have gone below half).

 

Also, you can drop the condescension.  I am a good player and don't need to waste my time making an arbitrary video to please some random guy on the internet.  It just seems silly to try and turn a class built around doing ranged damage (and one that is disputably the best at it) and spending points that could be spent on INCREASING that damage on taking marginally less damage, something that really shouldn't be happening in the first place.  Even pretending that a keeper is "guaranteed" in groups, there is even less need for ice armor and blizzard, that barrier should carry you the entire way in combination with death siphon.  If you want to say CC, sure whatever, its DECENT cc but its nothing amazing.  Upgraded winters grasp chills groups of enemies, combined with virulence I've seen entire groups FROZEN from that one spell.  This is forgetting that there are more than a few enemies who are immune to frozen and chill doesn't seem to do much against them.

 

Like I said, your build isn't terrible, but in my opinion the warlock isn't made to be or best served as a tank, so I just don't understand why you are bothering to go that route.  You are taking something that excels in one area and making it built to be mediocre in another.  Work towards its strengths, not its weaknesses.

[-PenguinFetish-]

I love this argument. 'My build is better but im not going to show you because I dont want too, but my point is still valid'.

 

You are the one who came right out the gate with condescending comments when you told me the only reason I did well was because my team made it so, im just returning them back to you. If you don't like it, don't do it yourself.

[Bastion6six6]

The only reason you didn't take absurd damage is because your team made it so.  I never called you a bad player, check that projection there buddy.  Sorry that life isn't the big echochamber hugbox that you want it to be, but don't post opinions if you don't want criticism.  I'm simply pointing out that your build leaves room for improvement, unless you are trying tank as a mage?  If anything, arcane warrior is better suited to that.

 

It all comes down to what your purpose is in the group.  Whats the legionairre/templars purpose?  Sure, they can deal damage, but the role they serve in the party is the tank.  A good legionairre in threatening/perilous has skills and abilities that work towards his strengths, skills that pump up his guard and mitigate damage.  Would you want a legionairre who specced himself to do more damage and as a result had less points into tanking?  I would assume not.  Similarly, what is a necromancers purpose in the party?  To tank?  If so, then continue thinking that your build is the "best" build.  But if you think the necromancers job is to do damage, then your build needs some work.  If you want nothing but praise when posting an opinion on the internet, go start your own blog and moderate your own comments to make you feel better.

[-PenguinFetish-]

The only reason you didn't take absurd damage is because your team made it so.  I never called you a bad player, check that projection there buddy.  Sorry that life isn't the big echochamber hugbox that you want it to be, but don't post opinions if you don't want criticism.  I'm simply pointing out that your build leaves room for improvement, unless you are trying tank as a mage?  If anything, arcane warrior is better suited to that.

 

It all comes down to what your purpose is in the group.  Whats the legionairre/templars purpose?  Sure, they can deal damage, but the role they serve in the party is the tank.  A good legionairre in threatening/perilous has skills and abilities that work towards his strengths, skills that pump up his guard and mitigate damage.  Would you want a legionairre who specced himself to do more damage and as a result had less points into tanking?  I would assume not.  Similarly, what is a necromancers purpose in the party?  To tank?  If so, then continue thinking that your build is the "best" build.  But if you think the necromancers job is to do damage, then your build needs some work.  If you want nothing but praise when posting an opinion on the internet, go start your own blog and moderate your own comments to make you feel better.

 

I play for fun for the most part. I think my build is the best because it allows me to have the most fun and im still effective with it. Sorry thats not 1337 for you. 

 

What has life even got to do with this? I posted this because I found it fun and I like writing builds. You really take this internet business way too seriously. 

[Beefbowl]

The only reason you didn't take absurd damage is because your team made it so.  I never called you a bad player, check that projection there buddy.  Sorry that life isn't the big echochamber hugbox that you want it to be, but don't post opinions if you don't want criticism.  I'm simply pointing out that your build leaves room for improvement, unless you are trying tank as a mage?  If anything, arcane warrior is better suited to that.
 
It all comes down to what your purpose is in the group.  Whats the legionairre/templars purpose?  Sure, they can deal damage, but the role they serve in the party is the tank.  A good legionairre in threatening/perilous has skills and abilities that work towards his strengths, skills that pump up his guard and mitigate damage.  Would you want a legionairre who specced himself to do more damage and as a result had less points into tanking?  I would assume not.  Similarly, what is a necromancers purpose in the party?  To tank?  If so, then continue thinking that your build is the "best" build.  But if you think the necromancers job is to do damage, then your build needs some work.  If you want nothing but praise when posting an opinion on the internet, go start your own blog and moderate your own comments to make you feel better.

So your mage's purpose is DPS?

IMO mages are best used for CC which makes blizzard a better choice than barrage.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I wasn't even going for a "best" build. I went for a death mage build.

 

Horror

Walking Bomb

Spirit Minion (forgot the name)

Fadestep

 

Worked well enough for me and looked damn cool to boot. I have since promoted her and am now working on a fire/ice build with other skills that I haven't decided on yet. If I ever get back around to her that is. Her Mortalitasi outfit not looking any different from her Necro outfit has just about ruined her in my eyes. All that cloth for nothing...

 

Interesting build TC. Looks good on YouTube. She seems more like a cryomancer than a necromancer to me though.

Edited by JSlither, 23 November 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Overall I found this discussion quite entertaining and it goes to show how different builds can be effective.  Needless to say, just like with ME3's MP, if you can get your DPS high enough you can usually forgo any defense.  This is also why the Elementalist is considered one of the best classes in the game currently since they can Barrier the group and still get a damage boost from it.

 

@Beefbowl

 

To be fair, Blizzard doesn't really CC since enemies tend to walk out of its radius unless there is a tank or someone with threat in the area to keep the enemies interested.  Chilling Grasp is a far better CC overall.  Also, if we are talking about Mages, most are for DPS focused save the Keeper.  Just because they have CC abilities does not mean that they cannot DPS on top of that.  The game is still early but Archer and Elementalist are likely the top DPS classes right now.  Necromancer isn't too far behind those two either since Winter's Grasp + Virulence is incredible, as it Walking Bomb.  Even if the Necromancer isn't getting the kills directly they usually add to the team's damage by a significant amount due setting up combos.

[-PenguinFetish-]

 

Interesting build TC. Looks good on YouTube. She seems more like a cryomancer than a necromancer to me though.

 

Yeah, it really isn't a nechromancer at this point. Spirit mark is kind of buggy, often I found the resurrected enemy didn't attack at all. It really needs more abilities focused around summoning minions in my opinion.

[Shadohz]

Overall I found this discussion quite entertaining and it goes to show how different builds can be effective.  Needless to say, just like with ME3's MP, if you can get your DPS high enough you can usually forgo any defense.  This is also why the Elementalist is considered one of the best classes in the game currently since they can Barrier the group and still get a damage boost from it.

 

@Beefbowl

 

To be fair, Blizzard doesn't really CC since enemies tend to walk out of its radius unless there is a tank or someone with threat in the area to keep the enemies interested.  Chilling Grasp is a far better CC overall.  Also, if we are talking about Mages, most are for DPS focused save the Keeper.  Just because they have CC abilities does not mean that they cannot DPS on top of that.  The game is still early but Archer and Elementalist are likely the top DPS classes right now.  Necromancer isn't too far behind those two either since Winter's Grasp + Virulence is incredible, as it Walking Bomb.  Even if the Necromancer isn't getting the kills directly they usually add to the team's damage by a significant amount due setting up combos.

That must be one of those "in the right hands" statements because my Necro does more damage than both those characters.

[Beefbowl]

Overall I found this discussion quite entertaining and it goes to show how different builds can be effective. Needless to say, just like with ME3's MP, if you can get your DPS high enough you can usually forgo any defense. This is also why the Elementalist is considered one of the best classes in the game currently since they can Barrier the group and still get a damage boost from it.

@Beefbowl

To be fair, Blizzard doesn't really CC since enemies tend to walk out of its radius unless there is a tank or someone with threat in the area to keep the enemies interested. Chilling Grasp is a far better CC overall. Also, if we are talking about Mages, most are for DPS focused save the Keeper. Just because they have CC abilities does not mean that they cannot DPS on top of that. The game is still early but Archer and Elementalist are likely the top DPS classes right now. Necromancer isn't too far behind those two either since Winter's Grasp + Virulence is incredible, as it Walking Bomb. Even if the Necromancer isn't getting the kills directly they usually add to the team's damage by a significant amount due setting up combos.

To me DPS means doing the most damage in the shortest amount of time. IMO I dont see Mages doing that.

[Hiero_Glyph]

@Shadohz

 

Fair enough.  I know that on lower levels I tend to overkill with my Elementalist, as does my friend's Archer, so our DPS is actually lower since it takes the same number of casts as on higher difficulties to kill enemies.  At higher difficulties though, the damage is great and can kill most enemies in a single combo.  From what I have seen Archers are capable of doing the most damage per hit so against bosses they really shine.  I think the Necromancer is perhaps the best mob killer since they can spread status effects across a large area and nuke entire groups with a single ability.  It will be curious to see how the game evolves over the next few months and which classes are preferred overall.  For me, I think the Arcane Warrior hype will die down a lot (fun but overrated) and you will see Rogues start to dominate (thanks to Fallback Plan).

 

@Beefbowl

 

DPS is often misleading at it refers to sustained, not burst.  In a game like this you only need enough DPS to kill an enemy quickly, any more is wasted.  Mages tend to apply status effects and deal damage capable of killing groups in just a few casts.  Warriors are certainly not capable of this since moving between groups really slows them down, and Rogues, while having large single target damage values, have difficulty with groups.  It's the old issue of having a class hit for 1,000 damage per swing and killing almost every enemy in a single hit versus having a class do only 50 damage but still take down large groups in much less time.

 

As an Elementalist I only use Barrier when I need the added damage for an opener (usually with Fire Mine) as this will outright kill a group or severely damage an elite.  Being able to hit multiple enemies really adds to a classes damage even if they are leaving targets with just a little health since they can finish them off during their cooldown(s).  As noted previously, I do expect Rogues to take back the DPS crown on Perilous but right now Mages dominate Routine and Threatening.  To me, I don't think any group can kill faster than 4 Mages right now (2-3 Elementalists and 1-2 Necromancers).  I admit that my assessment is limited but give it a few months and we'll see if it has weight then.

[Beefbowl]

Op's is the build I currently have and I find myself using blizzard more than walking bomb. Just my preference I guess.

I'm about to promote her and I want to go all frost side with upgraded ice mine and combo it with barrage.

[Cirvante]

@Shadohz

For me, I think the Arcane Warrior hype will die down a lot (fun but overrated) and you will see Rogues start to dominate (thanks to Fallback Plan).

 

Well, we can't have that. Penguin, could you please make a video of your Arcane Warrior's Abyss + Fade Cloak combo?

 

Just saw it in action when we were farming Perilous and together with the Necro's Virulent Walking Bomb it completely wrecked entire groups of enemies.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Yeah ill make a video tomorrow. Ill do a full write ul like this build.

[Beefbowl]

Well, we can't have that. Penguin, could you please make a video of your Arcane Warrior's Abyss + Fade Cloak combo?

Just saw it in action when we were farming Perilous and together with the Necro's Virulent Walking Bomb it completely wrecked entire groups of enemies.

Abyss is pretty awesome. I saw it combo with blizzard.

[Hiero_Glyph]

@Cirvante

 

That sounds fine actually.  I was referring more to the Spirit Blade spam that so many AWs persist in using.  Playing an Arcane Warrior as a caster sounds very plausible however and was something I suggested previously in another thread.  This would make the Barrier generation more of a bonus to prevent damage than a requirement to deal it.  Given that Spirit Blade is an innate skill the AW could still use it for leveling purposes.  Perhaps this is the best Mage class for promotion grinding after all.

[-PenguinFetish-]

@Cirvante

That sounds fine actually. I was referring more to the Spirit Blade spam that so many AWs persist in using. Playing an Arcane Warrior as a caster sounds very plausible however and was something I suggested previously in another thread. This would make the Barrier generation more of a bonus to prevent damage than a requirement to deal it. Given that Spirit Blade is an innate skill the AW could still use it for leveling purposes. Perhaps this is the best Mage class for promotion grinding after all.

I find the AW conpletely useless until at least level 10 or so though when i get pull of the abyss. Feels like a poor mans keeper until that point. Archers just screw you over and you cant ever really generate barrier while chain lightning is on cooldown.

[Cirvante]

I find the AW conpletely useless until at least level 10 or so though when i get pull of the abyss. Feels like a poor mans keeper until that point. Archers just screw you over and you cant ever really generate barrier while chain lightning is on cooldown.

 

I usually hang back and play him as a ranged caster until I get Fade Cloak, occasionally slashing some mooks who get into melee range. He really is the best mage for promotion grinding.

[J. Peterman]

Nice. Waiting to get enough silk (or something to unlock her). Well either her or the AW.