44 replies to this topic

[Dukeun]

Abilities:

 

Elemental Mines

Flask of Frost

Flask of Fire

Hide

 

Passives:

 

• Throw Everything
• Sneak Attack
• Dance of Death
• Alchemy Mastery
• Unorthodox
• Fighting Dirty
• Unquenchable Flames
• Killer’s Alchemy
• Riding the Storm
• Ambush
• Unforgiving Chain
• Knife in the Shadows
• Bloodied Pray
• Gaps in the Armor
• Evasion

 

(Unlocked more or less in the the order listed.)

 

Strategy:

 

Hiding and attacking from the back is a good way for fast kills on most things, that includes the mobs that can use guard.  Popping Flask of Frost, if your target is in the middle of a group and your allies are either too far to have the rest of the targets engaged or might pull aggro.  FoF is also good for taking out assassins.

 

Be aware that the arch of which you throw the mines is kind of far, and might takes some time before you get it down.  Getting mobs to group up to set off a chain can get them low enough to kill quickly in a few hits, or an aoe from an ally.  Tossing at walls, in tight area fights, is better than throwing at openings; allows mines to be closer grouped.

 

If your group engages a set of mobs before you can target the assassin, toss mines at your ranged members so if the assassin targets them the hide is broken.  

 

In the final area, if your group stays in the first room, throw mines a little ways out from the doorway.  A good 90% of the time, the tank or other close combat dps will fight before the mobs can hit your mines, rendering them useless.  In cases where the group doesn't fight in the room, the mines would be good to cover your groups back.

 

Side note, throwing mines at stairs might make them go off.  Also, might not go off if they are on stairs or on rubble even if a mob steps on it.

 

Promoting gives +1 to cunning.

[Robbiesan]

Thanks for the tips.  Still leveling up this character and looking at ways to use her differently from the assassin. 

[Azrus]

I love those explosive jelly beans.  I keep trying to set it up so I can Flask of Fire + Jelly bean spam in a circle around the flag on zone 5 timed so that they detonate during the victory pose.  I've had limited success so far.

 

At any rate, thanks for writing up the guide.  The Alchemist really is a ton of fun.

 

Have you tried a poison/fire flask/stealth/twin fang build at all?  I was thinking of giving that a shot when I prestige. Fire Flask + Twin Fang spam seems like it could be devastating to single targets.

[Amartell44]

I am currently running an elemental mine/ poison cloud build (mostly because I found a 30% poison cloud ring and wanted to try it out). I did the fire flask/ elemental mine build my first time leveling the alch... But I found it to be almost a waste to throw all those mines out at once. It's overkill and most of the mines just sit on the ground until they explode after their time is up. Just using the standard skill when timed and used properly is plenty for most situations.

Poison cloud is quite powerful and I rarely see anyone using it which is a shame... with the upgrade and the attached skill which boosts the damage and causes mobs to explode in a "poison mist" it will wipe out groups of enemies in no time at all. It's particularly useful for the alch as a melee class since you need to be close to the action to engage the enemy and be effective.

The difficulty with this build is you have to really get into the mix to lay down the poison cloud in the group of mobs (since in most pug's people love to just push ahead and rush into the fight). This can be very risky as an alch since it pisses off a lot of mobs and in higher difficulties you will be knocked out if you don't evade or steath out of there right after you lay down the poison cloud. Best solution is I have come up with is to stealth into the mobs, drop the cloud, backflip out of there and then toss your mines into the crowd... it can be really devastating when it works right. If you pick up the passive that removes the cooldown on stealth with every kill it is much safer and helps tremendously to save your butt. The alch is a double edged sword in that you can do massive aoe damage but you also pull a lot of unwanted aggro (unlike the assassin which is the most comparable class play style wise but is more single target oriented and therefore less dangerous with pulling aggro from other targets). That aggro can and will kill your squishy alch really fast at higher difficulties if you are not very careful and playing smart.

This build in an organized group would be amazing... Drop the poison cloud and mines and pull the mobs through it and they are dead or almost dead by the time the tank moves to engage. Comboed with an elementalist dropping fire wall or a necro for all the status spreading and damage boosts you could have a really powerful combo if played intelligently (throw in a tank and a keeper and the sky is the limit).

It's a really a fun class to play but can also be frustrating at times since in treacherous or especially perilous you will will be crawling around on your hands and knees often if the wrong mob even looks at you funny. I would put it as a top tier class in the right group and in the right hands... But that just my opinion and only after playing all the classes to a limited extent this past week and a half.

Hope that helps some... Try out whatever you like. The fun is finding what works for you and your play style and making the most of it.. I will probably promote my alch again and rework some skill points I misused this last time leveling her and see if I can't tweak and improve this build a little bit more. Best of luck

[Azrus]

That's pretty similar to the build I'm currently running, though mine is stealth/fire flask/poison cloud/mines.  I do really like the poison cloud though, which was half the reason I was considering giving poison cloud/twin fangs a try next prestige.

[Blackstork]

I find mines builds more random and lacking for my taste. Dnt get me wrong, mines are great, but they are too random, take too much time/you must be not mobile to drop them precisely. I run with them till i level promotion to level where i have 4 builds skills. 

Also as Alchemist those builds which i will not state below are even more dependant on proper team coordination and timing, and proper tank work.

 

There 2 very different builds styles which are good and less random than mines build.

 

My is called poison needler. I am stitching battlefield with it. You need good eq, better one double-edged unique dagger for explosions and bit more aoe.

The build is Stealth, Flank Attack, Poison Weapon, Fire flask, with all vital passives needed for that, including cripple.

This is the favorite.

 

Other is tempest short-term tank, it takes all flask skills in alchemy, and have stealth/shadow strike or twin fangs/fire flask/frost flask. It needs more team coordination.

Tank short time  with frost>fire flask with SS shatter spam, stealth. Its more tactical, more tanky. Do less damage , much less, than first, but apply freeze and takes attention from party for short time.

 

I run first, needler builds, perfecting it with some slight modifications through repetable promotions. 

 

Poison cloud is also nice, and some my needler bulilds have explosion perk for PW. TC ability is cool , and i had few with it. You can actually use TC with second build instead of Shadow Strike. It works well, and saves points. 

TC builds are extremely dependant on strong team coordination, proper keepers/legionaires in team, since you are visible, and must dipe deep into enemy ranks, and often TC alone is not enough.
 

 

Ah, excuse me, this is complete waste of thread, since there is thread with graphic treees and alot much info to make builds. Before making one check if there is a one with info.

[Blackstork]

Have you tried a poison/fire flask/stealth/twin fang build at all? I was thinking of giving that a shot when I prestige. Fire Flask + Twin Fang spam seems like it could be devastating to single targets.

I tried it but single target are tough bosses or tough mobs which usually AOE / stun and under twin fang you are vulnerable. It is also suck in many mobs fights/archers which are usually all over the place. I use same but flank attack with skirmisher instead of twin fangs and I like it much more.

[Scorpio989]

Mine are far to weak for my liking... Although spamming glitter is still one the most fun routine builds I have played.

[Blackstork]

Mine are far to weak for my liking... Although spamming glitter is still one the most fun routine builds I have played.

 

There are few very powerful builds. Heck, very powerful, but:

- they are very high skill based and require knowledge of positioning, and timing. Its so cruicial that noobie with same build will awfuly bad, because its requires some proper movement and timing

- they are team oriented, this means they need proper team to be really effective. With dumb tank who does not pull aggro and lacks back, ranged dps who aggro stuff before tank and dd get even los on mooks, and with bad support  it is much harder task to get 100% of this character.

- it is pure dps character, and devastating , i think its best aoe in the game, if done well. Also very versatile and can swap some nuanced according to party composition.

- elemental bombs is bit awkward but funny thing. Normally its filler to get to more powerful places, or tool for those who wants stuff simple.More complex builds of lvl 20 are ones who do not have elemental bombs on skill bar

[Aedh]

I've been trying the Fire Flask + Bombs combo, but found it a bit awkward.

Sure, it packs some (well, a lot of) punch, but I noticed Luka takes half a forward step each time you throw them, which means it's not great when you have to use it on a boss and end up throwing the 2nd/3rd/4th waves behind him.

 

I've been wondering if I can take Shadow Strike instead, and use it with Frost and Fire flasks to "self-detonate" combos. I see you talking about this, Blackstork, how do you think it fares in PuG ? (I don't have a regular team)

Guess it would be strong with a necromancer in the group though.

[Nitestick7]

From what I've heard it's not worth it to take the Throw Everything passive for Elemental Mines.  Throw Everything forces you to spend all your stamina, which counters Flask of Fire's 0 stamina cost perk.  If you use Flask of Fire and just spam Elemental Mines without the perk, you'll get almost as many throws off and you'll have full stamina after the flask wears off.

[Blackstork]

@Aedh It is actually bit more self-sustainable build. And it is good.

 

I like more needler build which is very different, massive aoe dd with alot of stealth, which uses stealth for own sustainability and with barriers can be really devastating.

 

Frost-Fire flask rotation build also great and provides tactical advantage, esp to coordinated party with rogue/warrior detonators, and takes attention from tank and works well as initiation.

 

Those are 2 styles i like for Luka, and find them effective and fun. There are many others, There are ST builds which devastating with proper party but are viable only if build for coordinated, special pre-set group as boss/tough mob dispenser (Twin Fangs spam)

[Aedh]

@Aedh It is actually bit more self-sustainable build. And it is good.

 

I like more needler build which is very different, massive aoe dd with alot of stealth, which uses stealth for own sustainability and with barriers can be really devastating.

 

Frost-Fire flask rotation build also great and provides tactical advantage, esp to coordinated party with rogue/warrior detonators, and takes attention from tank and works well as initiation.

 

Those are 2 styles i like for Luka, and find them effective and fun. There are many others, There are ST builds which devastating with proper party but are viable only if build for coordinated, special pre-set group as boss/tough mob dispenser (Twin Fangs spam)

 

Thanks for the answer man, I will give it a try later then

[Rhaine]

After trying a few builds and prestiging twice my final thought is still that alchemist does not much that another class cant do better.

 

I  also dont like poison builds on higher difficulties because its important to eliminate targets asap or risk someone on the team taking a hit.

 

I know you keep saying they have the best aoe but its just not true, arcane warrior with pull of the abyss and going to town does way more, elementalist with a whole host of aoe's does more, im fairly sure necromancer with just walking bomb does more.

 

and why bother with a twin fang spam when you could simply go assassin and use hidden blades + twin fang which is pretty much going to do more damage since assassin has traits like +50% damage vs targets who are not near other targets AND hidden blades is ranged and super safe even on demon boss which has little melee openings in many cases.

 

The truth is alchemist brings some utility and thats its only saving grace, ice flask, knockout bomb and to a lesser extent elemental mines . Dont even talk about damage and dont make damage focused builds because its never going to compare to other classes. Sure its perfect on routine for damage but beyond that? meh.

 

If you dont care about all that though and just want to have fun then by all means, i still stick to my guns when I say alchemist is too jack of all trades when a jack of all trades is rarely what you need or want. Alchemist needs some tweaking and thats a fact, passives that give you boosts with elixirs in multi for one make little sense.

 

The only classes i have not played are katari, hunter and arcane warrior so its easy for me to compare alchemist with most of the classes and it just does not stack up. fun? yes, efficient? no. Unless ofcourse you are speccing for utility which im still not sure about, everytime i see an other alchemist (which admitedly is rare as hell) they are always a damage spec and they always underperform on anything other than routine. I have also tried two damage specs on alchemist and while it may seem good as soon as you try many of the other classes you will realise it falls short.

 

So in short i think bioware needs convincing that alchemist needs work, if they just made elixirs more of a reliable to obtain and use item in multi that would go a long way imo but thats just one suggestion.

[Blackstork]

I do not agree with you. I do not mind the boost tho in order to make it easier to use. And flank attack needler build with proper eq is better than anything you mentioned damage wise. You do not risk yourselves and poison upgrade is just 25% damage increase which could be compared to 50% for secluded for assassin. For crowds assassins bonus does not work and needler can spam flank attack , remain stealthy and explode enemies in packs. Yes, for lone boss assassin is still better, but during advance it will suck versus spread archers. Elementalist damage not comparable to proper meelee skill spam and unique slashing daggers crowd attack with explosions. Aw pull nice but also works better with alchemist inside. And we won't compare alch to aw for obvious reasons aw being overly op.
And it can not do more since you in place triggering explosion after explosion, and crit with weapons. I know the numbers . Even low level alch can contribute a lot to threatening party with proper tank/ barrier support
Assassin can not do things alch can do, alch can do same things as assassin.
And utilyty is also important. Mass aggro pull and freeze is one of best initiations in the game.
Ah, and dont forget, each spammed flank attack is actually -15% damage debuff to target.

[Rhaine]

i never once said assassin had better aoe, i said other classes do aoe better, have you even played other classes cause it sounds like you have only played alchemist?

 

And you never once mention these passives that give boosts with elixirs, do you use them or do you agree that they dont work well for multi and need tweaking?

 

And I think elementalist is compareable and more, hell id take a fire storm even with less damage simply because it does knockdown. But with things like immolate and fire mine you wont get close to them as an alch. Especially when they get +50% damage boost from shield.

[Blackstork]

i never once said assassin had better aoe, i said other classes do aoe better, have you even played other classes cause it sounds like you have only played alchemist?

 

And you never once mention these passives that give boosts with elixirs, do you use them or do you agree that they dont work well for multi and need tweaking?

 

And I think elementalist is compareable and more, hell id take a fire storm even with less damage simply because it does knockdown. But with things like immolate and fire mine you wont get close to them as an alch. Especially when they get +50% damage boost from shield.

Which ones passives? i find some of them very useful.

I played other classes, all except AW, (did not because it is too OP), and i ve been enough with AW in my parties to know what both capable off. Elementalist have static aoe while alch aoe is not aue, but multiple st attacks which with slashing unique daggers and other perks create quite potent aoe chain reaction effect. Same pull wont kill mobs on highter levels if there no aoe dd inside. Alch is one of those who are best bet with spells like Abyss / Templars pull and anything alike. Elementalist aoe works differently , its area based, and does not do same levels of damage as melee ability spam alch. And flank attack spam alch is stealthy alch so there no problem of getting close, as there no problem of getting close if party places proper barriers. It is much more damage than landed fire mine, and more than immolate, because you move, and your auto-attacks fast, in same place, crit often, aoe and have explosive finisher/poison effect. When i needle spam i see alot of big shiny numbers, and once it over i am there , to slash dagger aoe autoattack , which create more xplosions, cloud, more victims and explosions. It's like chain effect. And there alot of big numbers. I like big flashy red and ot only red big numbers. Daggers dps alone is much more than some of spells , if you add crits, and ability , and poison bonus and dot. And also, those crit/flank attack debuffs.

[Rhaine]

Killers alchemy for one, I mean a fantastic passive in single player is pretty meh I multi just because of how pots/elixirs work, I'm not sure if it effects flasks or not since the writing on half the skills just say "elixirs" though I think it's bugged since I've never seen the effect stack.

I also think alchemist suffers because they have so many skills that 4 slots just doesn't feel enough.

[Blackstork]

I agree on Killer Alchemy. I thought once that it gives bonus on flask use before, but it is not, and it sucks, but still usable, but very dependant on you using potions/elexiers. Its good for boss fights, but barely fits (it could tho, if you have tons of potions, and use them , for boss fights damage booster.) optimal tree perk choice. I tried it. It worked (esp vs Venatori Commander which uses fire, and easily approachable and flank-attackable. )But .... i am not sure this is best selection. I just want it being extended on flasks in MP. 

 

Dont get me wrong, i agree that she needs buff. Having only 2 viable builds, which also require some competence from team, compared to so op classes like AW seems like disbalance and mistake. Her trees are fun, but , sadly, her signature spell, elemental bombs, is sub-optimal in high level game conditions. She is still viable to hi-level game and is very good in skilled hands and proper team, simply being narrowed to 2 builds is not enough for skill tree which looks fun and could be much more viable. Simple example is Killer's Alchemy, weak evade and so on.

I could also suggest to BW that she could have some kind of evasion tank if  +5% evasion perk were not so underwhelming and parry were more universal with upgrade which allow to parry projectiles. 

 

I mean, yes i agree that she need some rework, some things of her arsenal are lacking in power compared to some classes which do the same thing. But i disagree that she is weak, she is great in good hands with good team and very viable, simply there 2 builds that actually work , as i , personally see it. And still, they need  more effort to control , teammate understanding of your potential and proper acting, and familiarity with  timings, compared to some classes easy button smash or overly op class like AW is.

[Scorpio989]

My Build:

 

1. Shadow Strike 

Everyone questions my choice here so let me explain my reasoning with a list of benefits.

1. Does 133% more damage when you take no damage for 5 seconds. This works very nicely if you have a tank and works very well with no cooldown stealth.

2. The knockdown is amazing... You can KD a whole group or make a single target unable to attack for 5+ seconds with Fire Flask. Since the target is on the ground he is no longer inflicting damage which means you gain that 200% damage bonus for each attack. 

3. This skill is not dependent on positioning unlike Twin Fang. Spending less time on flanking and positioning means your going to do that much more DPS with zero possibility of accidentally missing the flank hit.

 

2. Stealth 

No explanation needed

 

3. Flask of Frost 

Likely the best Freeze skill in the game. Enemies don't even need to hit you in order for you to freeze them. You simply need to touch them for the effect to go off. An amazing combo with this is to have someone pull a group of enemies into a tight cluster (Necromancer) and then simply walk into the mob and freeze the lot of them. You can wipe a whole room in seconds. The 85% damage resistance is also a godsend since Alchemist probably have the lowest HP in the game (not sure but I seem to have 100 less hp than archers and 200 less than mages).

 

4. Flask of Fire 

If someone on your team has an AoE combo effect you can wipe a whole room in seconds with Fire Flask. Simply activate the skill and spam Shadow Strike to combo off the affected group. If your team has no combo starters you can use the same method to knock down a group of enemies in support of your party. This works best against archers as they are usually the biggest threat.

[Beerfish]

Fun class to play, I have found though that my survival rate is much less at higher levels due to the risk of getting in there with your daggers.

[Cryos_Feron]

Does anymody know which "status effects" are affected by the Alchemy Mastery?

For me, poison effects would be important.

 

Thanks!

[Amartell44]

Does anymody know which "status effects" are affected by the Alchemy Mastery?
For me, poison effects would be important.

Thanks!

I am also curious about this skill and if it boosts the length of your potion effects (frost and fire)... Or if it only lengthens the status effects triggered by elemental mines, etc,..

[caluchill]

I havent played ele yet but playing alche on threatening and above is bleh

[Blackstork]

Alchemy Mastery means status effects , means:

Frozen, Chilled, Shocked, Burning, Poisoned.

This means your poison on enemy will last longer. Your spell on dagger duration will not change. 

This means status effects from elemental bombs and frost flask will last longer, and this is important perk for ones who take frost flask.