24 replies to this topic

[-PenguinFetish-]

This has been done to test for the percentage modifier for enemies that are resistant or weak to specific elements (frost, fire, lightning and spirit).

 

Kit used: Archer

 

Bow and upgrades used: 

• Longbow of the Griffon - Superb Fire Rune - No grip available
• Longbow of the Griffon - Superb Lightning Rune - No grip available 
• Punched by the Maker - Superb Frost Rune - No grip used

Difficulty: Threatening

 

Test subjects:

 

Rage Demon (level 9) - Documented on YouTube.

• Resistant to Fire
• Weak to Cold
• Neutral to Lightning

Red Templar Horror (level 9). 

• Resistant to Lightning
• Neutral to Fire
• Neutral to Cold

Despair Demon (level 9).

• Resistant to Cold
• Weak to Fire
• Neutral to Lightning

All tests use the standard auto attack only and are completed if target armor is sundered, the enemy dies, or an elemental effect is applied (burning, chill or shock). Critical hits not counted in results.

 

Results:

 

Tests towards weak targets: ~75 elemental damage per shot

 

Tests towards resistant targets: ~25 elemental damage per shot

 

Tests towards neutral targets: ~50 elemental damage per shot

 

Conclusion:

 

All tests average 50% increase in damage when target is weak to a specific element and a 50% decrease in damage if target is resistant to a specific element. 

[KalGerion_Beast]

So, lightning is the worst, and tied in first are fire and ice.  Simple enough, and odd design choice.  

[Menthus]

So, lightning is the worst, and tied in first are fire and ice.  Simple enough, and odd design choice.  

Some mobs, venatori brutes for instance, do have lightning weakness.

[-PenguinFetish-]

So, lightning is the worst, and tied in first are fire and ice.  Simple enough, and odd design choice.  

 

 

I haven't fully tested all enemies from all the factions, but in general, there is no best element. Certain elements are favorable against certain factions I have found, but there is no 'best' or 'worst' element. For this test I only tested 3 units because they all spawn at least twice in the first 2 waves. 

[Storm_Changer]

It'd be interesting to see if overall there's a slight leaning towards one element. But I doubt it would be particularly important, as we can't pick which faction we go up against as far as I'm aware. 

[AManOnATricycle]

Red Templar Knights and Behemoths are both highly weak to fire damage. Fear Demons are weak to lightning damage. 

 

As a general rule of thumb, I would go with fire runes. Venatori are much easier to deal with, so the lack of the extra DPS from fire damage are less important. Two of the most dangerous ranged enemies in the game are weak to fire damage (Despair Demons and Red Templar Knights) so it would be beneficial to be able to have bonus damage against two of the three factions.

[KalGerion_Beast]

I haven't fully tested all enemies from all the factions, but in general, there is no best element. Certain elements are favorable against certain factions I have found, but there is no 'best' or 'worst' element. For this test I only tested 3 units because they all spawn at least twice in the first 2 waves. 

Ahhh...wouldnt it just be easier to look at enemies' resistances from the fade?    

[-PenguinFetish-]

Red Templar Knights and Behemoths are both highly weak to fire damage. Fear Demons are weak to lightning damage. 

 

 

Behemoths are weak to cold, They are resistant to fire. 

 

Also, spirit is the best element to have. 

[-PenguinFetish-]

Ahhh...wouldnt it just be easier to look at enemies' resistances from the fade?    

 

Thats exactly what ive been doing. One of the mods at /r/dragonagecoop has been doing it aswell. There is still a few enemies missing, but most of them have been compiled. I should have a video out this weekend explaining all status effects. Ill post the spreadsheet with all the info in it aswell. 

[tbxvividos]

I thought sunder only affects physical damage?
Is this wrong?

[-PenguinFetish-]

I thought sunder only affects physical damage?
Is this wrong?

Yes. Sunder increased the damage that each element was doing. It was averaging around 90 for the frost test for example.

[tbxvividos]

Do an energy barrage upgrade test next so I don't have to

[I_pity_the_fool]

There is still a few enemies missing, but most of them have been compiled. I should have a video out this weekend explaining all status effects. Ill post the spreadsheet with all the info in it aswell.

 

The addition of the various animals and thingummies - giants, wolves, bears, wyverns - has slowed the release of this thing down.

[I_pity_the_fool]

So, lightning is the worst, and tied in first are fire and ice.  Simple enough, and odd design choice.  

 

Venatori Brutes and Gladiators are vulnerable to electricity (spellbinders are also "sometimes" vulnerable - I'm not sure what the condition is. I hope it's something sensible like they're vulnerable to cold if they use fire spells).

 

So are fear demons (and sometimes wraiths - again I think this depends on what kind of damage they're popping out and therefore what colour they are).

 

No venatori are resistant to electricity. Pride demons are resistant. "Spirity" wraiths seem to be. RT Horrors are resistant. So are giant spiders (but not regular spiders).

 

There's not really any best element imo. I like to stick fire runes on bows and cold runes on melee weapons, because melee chars aren't going to be bringing down despair demons anyway, but are going to be up close with rage demons.

[AManOnATricycle]

Behemoths are weak to cold, They are resistant to fire. 

 

Also, spirit is the best element to have.

 You're right about the behemoths, my bad.

 

And of course spirit runes are the best element, but you can't slot those in your non-staff weapons, which is what I was addressing. 

 

So let me rephrase this. 

 

Based on evidence gathered by myself and other players of the community, I believe that fire runes are the best runes for non-staff weapons, to deal with Knights and Despair Demons. With Assassins/Alchemists, it would be recommended to carry either one fire and one frost, or one fire and one lightning, for maximum coverage. The damage bonus does not make-or-break the game, but in terms of min-maxing, every little bit counts. 

[-PenguinFetish-]

Based on evidence gathered by myself and other players of the community, I believe that fire runes are the best runes for non-staff weapons, to deal with Knights and Despair Demons. With Assassins/Alchemists, it would be recommended to carry either one fire and one frost, or one fire and one lightning, for maximum coverage. The damage bonus does not make-or-break the game, but in terms of min-maxing, every little bit counts. 

 

Can I see this evidence please? Because im currently writing up a venatori faction review and there is no enemy on that faction which is vulnerable to fire, only resistant. There is 25 enemies across all 3 factions and you are claiming fire is the best because two of those 25 are vulnerable to fire? Did you also know that Despair demons have no armor rating whatsoever, so any physical attack will kill them very quickly?

 

Wait a few days for me to finish up testing, writing, editing, rendering and uploading each faction review and then make your own conclusions based on numbers and statistics, not what you feel is the best because reasons. 

[tbxvividos]

I never slot fire runes because chill and shocked are more valuable.

[AManOnATricycle]

Can I see this evidence please? Because im currently writing up a venatori faction review and there is no enemy on that faction which is vulnerable to fire, only resistant. There is 25 enemies across all 3 factions and you are claiming fire is the best because two of those 25 are vulnerable to fire? Did you also know that Despair demons have no armor rating whatsoever, so any physical attack will kill them very quickly?

 

Wait a few days for me to finish up testing, writing, editing, rendering and uploading each faction review and then make your own conclusions based on numbers and statistics, not what you feel is the best because reasons. 

 

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm trying to have a polite conversation. 

 

Also, I did say "I believe." That makes my statement and anything that follows it opinion. I'm formulating my own opinion. Also, evidence doesn't have to be empirical. Anecdotal evidence, experiential evidence: these are other types of evidence as well. 

 

Since we cannot know what we face, then it is probably best to choose a rune based on what element has the least amount of enemies that resist it, or the most that are weak to it. Now, that may actually be lightning, or frost, but as the Venatori do not give me as much issue as the RT or Demons, I tend to base my assumptions off of that premise. Now, RT has resistances to lightning on some of its more irritating members, so I would instead prefer not to take lightning. Note I am using personal preferences here. Frost (to my knowledge) has bonus damage against certain enemies, but most of those enemies I do not have a problem with in the first place.

 

The reason I chose to focus on those enemies instead of looking at all 25 is that my trouble enemies are RT Knights, Despair Demons (yes, I know they have no armor, but fire damage still does a lot of good against them) and the DC. I don't have a lot of issues with behemoths, fear demons, rage demons, etc., because I know how to deal with them on my respective classes. I know less how to deal with the RT Knight and Despair Demon. And the DC is just stupid. Now, DC has no elemental vulnerabilities. RTK and DD have fire vulnerability. Ergo, I believe that fire would be the best. When empirical evidence shows me otherwise, I will take that under advisement, but I highly doubt that at any point is someone going to kick me from a lobby because I have a fire rune as opposed to a frost rune or lightning rune. And at no point would I probably be running perilous with someone like that. 

I like you Penguin. You have time to put effort into this game that most of us don't, and I admire that you come here to share your findings and views. But, ultimately, this is a place for collaborative discussion.  I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm simply stating my opinion. If you disagree, then that's fine, and I will explain myself. If you still disagree, then we will agree to disagree. 

[-PenguinFetish-]

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm trying to have a polite conversation. 

 

I like you Penguin. You have time to put effort into this game that most of us don't, and I admire that you come here to share your findings and views. But, ultimately, this is a place for collaborative discussion.  I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm simply stating my opinion. If you disagree, then that's fine, and I will explain myself. If you still disagree, then we will agree to disagree. 

 

For sure, I do get a little cynical because BSN is BSN and several people do preach their opinion like its fact. 

 

Ive done the Venatori faction full guide, just need to produce it now. 

[AManOnATricycle]

Looking forwards to it.

[tbxvividos]

Los + aoe archers.
smash face on keyboard vs boss.

Venatori guide finished.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Los + aoe archers.
smash face on keyboard vs boss.

Venatori guide finished.

 

Its more an overview of the faction rather than strategy of how to beat them.

[sunnydxmen]

spirit damage is the best in always will be.

[tbxvividos]

Its more an overview of the faction rather than strategy of how to beat them.

I know lol

[I_pity_the_fool]

Now, RT has resistances to lightning on some of its more irritating members, so I would instead prefer not to take lightning.

 

RT Horrors have elec resistance. I couldn't find any other enemies who did.

 

I've never had a big problem with horrors. I understand wanting to kill knights quickly. I hate that ranged attack they do.