122 replies to this topic

[Heldarion]

I've noticed a lot of players seem to think that certain enemy units (=pets) can spawn on completely random places, which is not true, so I want to explain why and expand the explanation slightly beyond that.
 
There is a thing that will be called "a waypoint" for the purposes of this post.
 
* * *
 
What is a waypoint? A waypoint is spot on a map that the game chooses for various purposes. These purposes are:
 
- locations for some pet units (a Cerberus Turret, a Geth Turret and a Collector Web)
- a starting and/or ending location for the escort objective
- a spawn location for the pizza objective
- generating a zone for the hack objective (this seems to be somewhat iffy and sometimes appears to be set between waypoints rather than around waypoints)
- a spawn location for the device objective
- a spawn location for enemies
- in the case of Glacier Hazard, locations which the Swarm chooses to travel to and from
- generating a landing zone
- generating an extraction zone
 
Each of these purposes has a certain set of spots allocated to it from which the game semi-randomly chooses the required spot(s). I say "semi-randomly" because the randomness of it depends on several factors:
- where the units capable of spawning pet units are in relation to players
- where the enemies are spawning and where the players are at the start of the wave
- where the players are located when new enemies need to be spawned
- untested hypothesis: a set of closest locations from which the Glacier Hazard swarm has to pick to travel to next
 
I may have forgotten something. However, I think this pretty much encompasses everything.
 
* * *
 
Demonstration on Firebase Glacier
 
Layout of the map and with a couple of spots explained:
 

 
- Waypoint next to the "Balcony" area (1):
 - a spawn location for enemies
 - a starting location for the escort objective
 - a spawn location for the device objective
 - generating a landing zone
 - generating an extraction zone
 
- Waypoint between the lab and the now blocked Room of shame (2):
 - Cerberus Turret location
 - a spawn location for the pizza objective
 - a spawn location for the device objective
 - a starting location for the escort objective
 - possibly a location for the Geth Turret or Collector web - not sure about this, did not play enough of those on Firebase Glacier
 
- Waypoint below the bottom doorway to the "Hub" area (3):
 - Collector web location
 - Cerberus Turret Location
 - a spawn location for the pizza objective
 - a spawn location for the device objective
 - a starting location for the escort objective
 - a spawn location for the enemies (rafters)
 - seems like a possible location for the Geth Turret - not enough data on that
 
- Waypoint in the top right corner of the map (4):
 - a starting and/or ending location for the escort objective
 - generating a zone for the hack objective
 - a spawn location for the pizza objective
 - a spawn location for the device objective
 
- Waypoints allocated to the pizza objective:
 - 2-12

Green stars mark spots that activate hack objectives. In some cases (13, 14, 15), those overlap with the device objective waypoints (yellow stars).
 
* * *
 
It's rather difficult to determine which waypoints are used by the Swarm on Glacier Hazard (mostly because I you cannot afford to pay much attention to that while playing), but it appears that the number of waypoints allocated for that purpose exceeds any that of any other purpose.
 
Geth Turret and Cerberus Turret locations most probably overlap quite a bit on Firebase Glacier (most likely on the other maps as well), but I'd need to play more Geth on that map to determine that 100%, which isn't going to happen.
 
* * *

All inquiries and suggestions are welcome.

[Darth Volus]

Thanks Cyon..Pedr..Corlis.. 

 

Wait, who are you? 

[RustyBuckets02]

The most important factor for gets turret placement is "right behind RustyBuckets02". I'm pretty sure it's right there in the coding.

But interesting read, thanks.

[BioWareMod01]

Hi everyone. Let's stay on topic. Thank you.

[Indoctornated]

You wouldn't remember how these waypoints changed with new Firebase White redesign?

[SilentStep79]

Great thread Heldarion. Thanks for taking the time to put this up!

[Heldarion]

You wouldn't remember how these waypoints changed with new Firebase White redesign?

 

I don't think any waypoints changed, since the map has only been expanded. That means that a bunch of waypoints were probably added to the map on the expanded parts. That may either have added new paths for some escort objectives or changed them. I don't know precisely, but anyone who is inclined to check that can do so by uninstalling the relevant DLC and playing the original map.

 

Great thread Heldarion. Thanks for taking the time to put this up!

 

You're welcome!

[NuclearTech76]

Team based play there are a couple of ways to block spawns. Line of sight blocking where you are staring into a possible spawn location, proximity based blocking where you stand in a possible spawn and block it.

 

Objectives waves follow a little different set of rules regarding spawn blocking etc especially for full teams. Proximity blocking generally still works those waves although sometimes a team can block to where the player on inside hallway (just outside the extraction zone on the way to the basement) will still have an enemy spawn drop a couple of feet from them. This I would believe is because the enemy spawn must fall away from the objective or at very least the first objective. So on objective waves priority shifts from the usual methods of spawn blocking and enemy spawns generally will spawn away from the device or delivery drop and sometimes this can lead to **** tier spawns for the player standing in a possible spawn location. 

[Heldarion]

Team based play there are a couple of ways to block spawns. Line of sight blocking where you are staring into a possible spawn location, proximity based blocking where you stand in a possible spawn and block it.

 

Objectives waves follow a little different set of rules regarding spawn blocking etc especially for full teams. Proximity blocking generally still works those waves although sometimes a team can block to where the player on inside hallway (just outside the extraction zone on the way to the basement) will still have an enemy spawn drop a couple of feet from them. This I would believe is because the enemy spawn must fall away from the objective or at very least the first objective. So on objective waves priority shifts from the usual methods of spawn blocking and enemy spawns generally will spawn away from the device or delivery drop and sometimes this can lead to **** tier spawns for the player standing in a possible spawn location. 

 

I've had Ravagers and Banshees spawn right next to me in my full vision of spot no. 8, giving zero fucks, including in solo runs. Spawnblocking doesn't seem to bring very consistent results.

[Terminator Force]

I don't think any waypoints changed, since the map has only been expanded. That means that a bunch of waypoints were probably added to the map on the expanded parts. That may either have added new paths for some escort objectives or changed them. I don't know precisely, but anyone who is inclined to check that can do so by uninstalling the relevant DLC and playing the original map.

 

Or play the WiiU version. I'll doing the science on this then.

 

And yeah, you're right.

[Deerber]

I've had Ravagers and Banshees spawn right next to me in my full vision of spot no. 8, giving zero fucks, including in solo runs. Spawnblocking doesn't seem to bring very consistent results.

 

Yeah I've had that happen countless of times, and I'm sure everyone else too. It somewhat appears to work, but it's not reliable.

[HeroicMass]

number 8 is also a notorious geth pyro constant spawn.  I remember during one of the themed challenges I had 4 pyros spawn back to back right in front of me.

[Deerber]

number 8 is also a notorious geth pyro constant spawn.  I remember during one of the themed challenges I had 4 pyros spawn back to back right in front of me.

 

That seems to happen a heck of a lot on #5, to me, and not only for pyros, but any enemy in the game. I've had times when basically the whole wave spawned there, apart from some strugglers.

[NuclearTech76]

I just know on inside hallway I've had stuff spawn literally about two feet from me. This doesn't seem to happen on normal waves just objectives in my experience.

[Olivia Wilde]

Two of the added areas on Firebase White are frequent enemy spawn points and often feature cerby turrets

[JAMiAM]

All inquiries and suggestions are welcome.

Great idea, and thread.  My only suggestion is to work on your map keys.  For example, color coordinating the waypoints by type.  E.g., Cerberus Turret Locations = Red Star, Spawn Points = Green Star, Geth Turrets = Blue Star, etc.  Or, in the case of multiple types overlapping, perhaps number sets for each location and corresponding type of waypoint usage.

[Bud Halen]

That seems to happen a heck of a lot on #5, to me, and not only for pyros, but any enemy in the game. I've had times when basically the whole wave spawned there, apart from some strugglers.

 

And for me, it's most often been at #6 on this map.

 

OP, for accuracy (and science) could we rename each 'ammo crate' to 'empty box'?

But srsly, this is fantazgreat...thank you.

[Heldarion]

Great idea, and thread.  My only suggestion is to work on your map keys.  For example, color coordinating the waypoints by type.  E.g., Cerberus Turret Locations = Red Star, Spawn Points = Green Star, Geth Turrets = Blue Star, etc.  Or, in the case of multiple types overlapping, perhaps number sets for each location and corresponding type of waypoint usage.

 

My intention wasn't to note what every waypoint's purpose is, because that's hella lot more of not-so-useful info, and also because I'm not 100% about the exact Geth Turret and Collector web locations. I just marked all the waypoints on the map and then picked a bunch of them to showcase their purposes.

 

Outside of Geth Turrets and Collector Webs, I know what every waypoint on Glacier can be used for, so feel free to query me about that.

 

 

 

OP, for accuracy (and science) could we rename each 'ammo crate' to 'empty box'?

 

Why?

[Bud Halen]

Why?

 

Ammo crate might mislead readers into thinking they serve some sort of provisional purpose.

 

 

You know I'm kidding, yes?

[Heldarion]

Ammo crate might mislead readers into thinking they serve some sort of provisional purpose.

 

 

You know I'm kidding, yes?

 

I suspected as much, but the joke flew overhead

[Miniditka77]

Great work on this.

 

I wonder if there is some kind of logic to where Turrets/Webs are spawned (not that I'm asking or expecting anyone to figure it out, because I sure as hell can't/won't).  It seems like Geth Turrets are usually spawned in locations where they have LOS on the player the Prime is currently targeting, and that they have to be within a certain distance of the Prime.  BTW, the fact that the Prime can spawn turrets through walls is kind of BS.

 

Cerberus Turrets and Webs are often spawned before the enemy gets LOS on the players, and in that case, I have no idea how they spawn.  They seem to favor certain spawn locations over others, in my perception at least.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Holy shit, a legitimately useful thread in the ME3MP section?

 

Very nicely done, Heldarion.

[Terminator Force]

Holy ****, a legitimately useful thread in the ME3MP section?

 

Very nicely done, Heldarion.

 

Yes. I think he should add it to his signature.

[Olivia Wilde]

Holy ****, a legitimately useful thread in the ME3MP section?

 

Very nicely done, Heldarion.

Never happen again....

[StoxRegalia]

Damn. Just when you thought everything has been figured out. I've known about some of these but nice to see someone completely figure it out. I'm too lazy.